Teen Anxiety, Self-Harm, and Healing: A Mother’s Story with Jenn Robb

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Hello and welcome to Overcome a Mental Health Podcast.

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I'm your host, Travis White.

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This is a place for you to share your mental health stories.

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I'm very excited to be speaking with Jen Robb.

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Jen is a nurse practitioner, author, coach, wife, and fiercely devoted mom.

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Jen, welcome to the show.

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Hi Travis, thanks for having me.

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Pleasure is all mine.

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Let's not waste any time.

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Let's get straight to your journey.

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I'm to just turn the microphone over to you and you share your story with the audience.

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Yeah.

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So my story really begins with my daughter.

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She was the one that was really struggling with her mental health.

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And she was about 12 when we started noticing signs of a deep struggle with anxiety,

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depression, and ultimately it led to self-harm.

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It was kind of a journey of all over.

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The real pivotal moment was when she started cutting.

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That was kind of the moment that you kind of go, okay, this is much, much deeper than just

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teen anxiety or, you know, issues in their teen brains, right?

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But the biggest moment we had struggled kind of with different things along the way, but

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the biggest kind of moment happened on April 4th of 23 when

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I couldn't get a hold of her and she had been doing well.

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had been at counselor's offices and she had been, you know, looking overall like she was

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getting better.

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but I couldn't get ahold of her.

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And so kind of my own mama's instinct, I knew something was wrong.

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so I sent my two boys home from school that day.

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They were at the high school up the road and I was like, you just got to go.

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Like, I don't know what's wrong, but something's not right.

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And I just need you to go.

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They came home and they actually found her unresponsive.

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Um, she was laying face down in a puddle of vomit with her face in a pillow, not knowing

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really what had happened.

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Of course they called nine one one tried to get her, you know, to wake up.

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finally got her to wake up.

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And once we got her to the ER, she had actually taken, can I pause for a minute?

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And like that dog, dog is like outside.

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Come on.

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Come on.

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Anyway, when we got to the ER and they started running all their lab tests, we had

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finally, we had realized that her alcohol level was four times the lethal limit.

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So it wasn't just now her alcohol levels through the roof, right?

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And she had broken into a liquor cabinet to try to quiet the noise that was in her head

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from the anxiety.

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and all of the kind of feelings that she was feeling.

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And that's what she always calls it as noise.

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And so she wasn't necessarily really trying to take her life that day.

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She was just trying to quiet the noise.

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But that was kind of a pivotal moment, right?

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Like because she was struggling and she was carrying such a burden that that was the only

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way she knew how to get it to quiet.

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Her pain was very, very

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real.

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We'd actually found out that she'd been sexually assaulted from another peer.

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And she had carried that burden for very long time.

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And, you know, as a teen, that's hard, right?

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Because they already are going through so many changes, know, hormones, body changes,

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their brains are finishing developing and all these things.

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And then you add in like a major trauma and add in PTSD.

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it really kind of messes with them, but she just couldn't carry that burden anymore.

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But we brought her home, you know, through, I finally found the perfect counselor for her

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who was actually trained in adolescence and trauma and actually also trained in cognitive

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behavior therapy or EMDR, which is helpful because it basically takes the parts of the

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brain that have healed incorrectly.

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and kind of tried to suppress the traumas.

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But it kind of brings them back up to the surface, but then teaches them healthier coping

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mechanisms so that the brain can heal in a proper fashion.

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And that was very, very significant for Chloe.

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Of course, she had to do the work, right, when she was doing EMDR.

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I can't do it for her.

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But she was able to kind of overcome

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have developed better coping skills and then now she's thriving and she's 17.

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That's so cool, but I can't imagine, you know, those mom instincts kicking in.

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What was going through your mind at that moment?

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were you, cause you had those mom instincts kick in and you're like, I know something's

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wrong.

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But like when you heard that she was like in with her face in the pillow and vomit all

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over, what was, what were your thoughts?

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Oh man, sheer panic, right?

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Like I was actually at work seeing patients in the clinic and I, I don't think I even took

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anything with me.

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I literally just ran out the door and said, have to go.

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Um, leaving like all my staff in the clinic to kind of figure out like, you know, oh my

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gosh, you know, um, and have to deal with the patients, but I had to go.

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And I remember driving and, 120 miles an hour trying to get home.

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before the ambulance had taken her so I could try to see if we could wake her up or

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whatever.

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But luckily my boys were able to handle it and they were able to wake her up finally after

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a few minutes.

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But thank God they got there because had they not, it could have been a different outcome.

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Even the ER doctor was like, there's really no reason that she should be alive.

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And when you think about that, like as a mom and you put that,

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kind of in perspective and somebody actually says that to you, that's like one of the most

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gut wrenching, the biggest gut punch you could ever hear as a mom, right?

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But when you look at all the things kind of around her, right?

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Her alcohol level was four times the lethal limit.

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She was face down in a pillow.

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She was also laying in a puddle of vomit, right?

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So not only a suffocation and aspiration and then her alcohol level, right?

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And so I'm just beyond thankful and grateful that God kept her around because I know that

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she has a special purpose, but it's very, very scary as a mom.

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so, but then you start to kind of, as a mom, you also start to wrestle with your own guilt

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and kind of shame.

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Like, did I miss something?

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Why did I let her stay at home?

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You know, she looked like she was doing better, but she wasn't doing better.

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And then you kind of go through this whole scenario where you almost beat yourself up,

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right?

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Because it's like it was your fault.

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And in reality, it's not your fault, but that's the way it feels when it's your child who

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is hurting, right?

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And as a mama, you want to do nothing more than take care of them and make everything feel

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better, right?

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I mean, I think about all the time, like when my three were little and they were outside,

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the minute they fall down and scrape their knee, they come running.

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Mm-hmm.

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But mama scoops you up, picks you up, you wipe it off, you kiss it and you put a band-aid

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on it and they're better.

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But when somebody is struggling with mental health...

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That's not, it doesn't, it doesn't work that way.

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You literally can't just put a bandaid on it and fix it.

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It takes sometimes weeks, years of work to get them through it.

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And honestly, I don't really know that they are ever a hundred percent over it, right?

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The goal, the goal was for Chloe was not to not make her feel what she felt.

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It was just to help her have better coping styles and coping mechanisms that were healthy,

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that she could deal with her feelings in a healthy way that wasn't going to harm her.

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And it's all scary and it's like as a parent, don't know how you, like when something like

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that dramatic happens, I don't know how you don't somewhat put the guilt on yourself.

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And now it's this huge, huge, huge, yeah.

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And it's, I mean, this is like, I've experienced that and I only have, I don't have any

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teenagers yet.

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I have a five year old, a three year old and one year old.

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But when my daughter was 13 months old,

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she fell on top of our dog and the dog bit her in the face.

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And so she has a scar right here and we've told her what it is and that's what she tells

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people.

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But even to this day, I still look back and I'm like, I could have changed that.

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And I've had to talk to my therapist about it and it's like, how do you go about not

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feeling guilty for something like that happening?

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Here's the deal, right?

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Like our...

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Our kids are gonna struggle and it doesn't matter if they're five, if they're 15 or if

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they're 25 or 35.

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They're always going to struggle with something because life is always going to life,

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right?

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No matter what.

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And as parents, we have to finally step into the fact that we cannot control everything

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that happens with our children, right?

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We just can't.

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that becomes more so apparent as they get older.

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When they're little, you do control almost every aspect of their life, right?

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You control when they eat, you control when they go to bed, you control when they wake up,

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you control all of that.

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But as they start to go into their teenage years and their young adult years, it becomes

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very apparent that you can only be there to love them and to support them and to guide

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them.

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and advise them, but they're going to make their own decisions.

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Just like Chloe did that day on April 4th, she made the decision to break into a liquor

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cabinet and broke two locks on it because she wanted to quiet the noise.

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And yes, I beat myself up.

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You know, what if we would have had three locks on it and what, and you know, what if we

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would have had a padlock on it?

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But at the end of the day, none of that matters because Chloe was so determined that day

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to stop the noise in her head.

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She was going to do whatever she needed to do to make that noise stop.

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Right.

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And it's just surely by the grace of God that she didn't end her life.

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But

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I talk about this a lot in my book is because as parents, it's our job to advocate for our

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children, right?

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To help them, support them, love them, cheer them on, advise them.

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But we are not their burden carriers, right?

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That is not the way that we are designed.

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We are there as their parent and to guide them, but we cannot physically carry their pain

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or their burdens for them.

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Okay.

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And I think that that's important for us to hear, especially for moms, because mom guilt

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is real, right?

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I mean, we beat ourselves up all the time.

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Well, what if I had seen this?

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What if I had done this just like you with the dog?

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What if I had moved the dog or whatever, right?

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But the bottom line is, is you can't, you can't do that, right?

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You'll live in this perpetual state of crazy in your own head.

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If you're like beating yourself up all the time.

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And one of the things that I had to learn to do with Chloe was

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is I even had to tell her.

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This is your pain and your burden.

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I can't tell you how to feel and I can't feel it for you.

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But I'm still going to be right here every step of the way.

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And I think that that's important, right, for them to, for us as moms or parents is to let

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go of the guilt and know that we can't fix everything and control everything.

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But also it creates safety for them.

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in that space, right?

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They know that they have a safe place to land when they're having really hard days.

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Yeah, and I think that's extremely important to know that they have that safe place.

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Like they're somewhere to fall back on.

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What are some practical ways that moms can build resilience while supporting their child's

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mental health journey?

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The biggest thing for moms and probably all parents, right?

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But it's, speak mostly to moms because moms were typically the more of the caregivers, the

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nurturers and all of the things kind of that runs the household and the family, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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But one of the biggest things and the best things that you can do is learn how to take

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care of yourself, right?

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Self-care and just have even five or 10 minutes a day where you are caring for yourself,

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right?

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Whether it's a walk or it's just taking a hot shower or it's prayer, whatever it may be,

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that becomes very, very important.

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Because not only are you modeling that type of behavior for your child, right?

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But you're also helping them by pouring into yourself.

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Because remember, once your cup is empty, you can't pour from that cup anymore.

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And what our calling is, is to kind of step into that fullness of kind of being that

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warrior mom and that warrior parent, which means that we have to get up every day and we

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have to fight alongside our child.

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And if you're completely 100 % burnt out and beat down and exhausted, you're no good to

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anyone.

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So the biggest thing that I can say is that you have to learn how to take

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little time and space in the midst of the chaos for yourself so that you don't hit the

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complete point of burnout.

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That's very well said, very well said.

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And it's like, I've started seeing this, that kind of that burnout factor, with my wife to

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a bit, because I feel like, you know, raising kids in general, and I'm saying pushing

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aside like all the, the challenges that come with raising kids.

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Like if you don't find that time for yourself, it can crawl up on it.

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The burnout can crawl up on you really quick.

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Can you still hear me okay?

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My mic left for a second.

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Are you there?

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Yeah, I'm here.

15:24

Can you still hear me okay?

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Okay, I'm having issues with my camera and my mic for some reason.

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Nope, no worries.

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It's technology.

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But I was saying that burnout can creep up on you really quick if you don't figure out how

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to work that out regardless of the challenges that you have to go through with your kids.

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Um.

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Well, but remember, and if you're burnt out and exhausted, then how can you possibly be

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there to support them and love them and advocate for them, right?

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And help them out of the trenches if you're so burnt out and beat down.

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That's why, I mean, I really push self-care and it doesn't have to be big and extravagant,

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right?

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I think that sometimes

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we get hung up on that.

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we have to, as moms, we need like an entire day to go to the spa and it has to be super

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expensive.

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And you you're gone away from the family for eight hours a day, but that's really not it.

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It's the small things every day that will continue to kind of help refresh you and

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re-center you.

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You know, and that's like, I mean, even taking a walk.

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glass of hot tea, by yourself for 10 minutes.

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Any of those things are helpful.

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It's whatever works for you to make you feel grounded and re-centered so that you can be

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the best mom, the best parent for your child who is struggling.

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Yeah, I love it.

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I love all of this.

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This is just, this is fantastic.

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Can you share one or two tools that help shift a mom's mindset from surviving to thriving?

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For me, and even in the book, it's very heavily Christian faith-based.

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So for me, that's prayer, right?

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I think that having that face in God and knowing that he's got your back, right?

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And he's still there in the midst of the mess is huge, right?

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And it offers peace and comfort and knowing that you're really not walking it alone.

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But I mean, also self-care, right?

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And then also having like a community, right?

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And having someone or some, you know, someone's that's there to help you and support you.

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Because here's the thing.

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I mean, like I remember early on, like we didn't talk about Chloe's mental health struggle

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with anybody.

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I mean, you know, I mean, my husband and I, we kept it to ourselves.

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We kept it within our family and our four walls.

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And we didn't really talk about it.

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I mean, and there was a lot of reasons for that, right?

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There's kind of a stigma around mental health that when you say that, people think, well,

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she's crazy or there's something really crazy happening in that house and that's really

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not the case, right?

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But also just because we didn't want to hear it from anybody.

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We didn't want to feel the judgment that we felt like people were going to say, but

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What I found is that so many times I felt like I was alone, right?

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Like, and I was fighting this battle by myself.

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And even though I had my husband and I had my two boys, know, Chloe's brothers there, but

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it's different when you're a mom or you're a parent and you're in the trenches, right?

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And your child is hurting and you can't, you can't fix it.

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And so I felt alone.

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And so what I want for moms and other parents to understand is that you're not alone.

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There are support groups and communities that though our stories are not exactly aligned

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and they're not exactly the same, they're still similar enough, right?

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That we can offer empathy and sympathy to help you when you're on your days that you're

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struggling the most.

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Yeah, for sure.

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I love talking about this stuff.

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Yeah, it's, but it needs to be talked about, right?

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On so many levels.

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yeah, on multiple levels.

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And I feel like the problem that we have as a society is like, you know, I'm seeing more

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and more like podcasts like come out and like, um, articles.

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I think, uh, employers, companies are starting to do more about mental health, but I still

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feel like it's not always talked about enough because of the stigma that you mentioned.

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Well, and also I feel like that it's, there's so many levels of mental health, right?

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Like I think a lot of times people don't think that it's true mental health or you're

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really struggling unless you're really like hanging on the edge of a cliff, holding on for

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dear life, right?

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And that's simply not the case.

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mean, Chloe's journey started with just simple like anxiety and kind of carrying this deep

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pain down inside.

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Right.

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And then slowly that kind of kept building up and building up and leading to self harm and

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then leading up to the day where she broke into the liquor cabinets.

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Right.

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And I think that it's important for people to understand that we all need mental health

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days.

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Right.

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Mental health doesn't have to be literally you hanging on the edge of a cliff ready to

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fall off to mean that you need to take

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care of yourself and reground and recenter and all of those things.

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So I think that there's so many levels to mental health and what we need to focus on and

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how we need to help kind of each other in the fact that like if you're struggling, if we

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all are gonna have bad days, right?

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But that doesn't make somebody crazy or.

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bad or a bad person because they're having a really tough time dealing with a certain

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season or storm in their life.

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But what happens is if you alienate those people and you cast judgment and you make them

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feel unworthy, then it builds into a bigger mental health problem along the way.

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And if we would have just been more loving and supportive and understanding and patient,

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we could have maybe helped them

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not go so far into the mental health realm.

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Does that make sense?

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it totally makes sense.

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Yeah, all this is very familiar to me because I have major anxiety problems myself.

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So when you, you, your mention of how your daughter says the noise in her head, that's a

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great way to explain it.

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I've never really thought of it that way, but that's like a fantastic way of saying it.

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So it's like, and it doesn't take much to, for your anxiety or depression or whatever it

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is that your mental health problem that you're going through to evolve and just continue

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building up.

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without the proper community or help.

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Well, and you know, I want people to understand that counseling and therapy doesn't make

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you weak.

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It's not a sign of weakness.

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To me, it's an amazing sign of courage and strength, right?

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Because it means that you do want to get better.

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You want to find healthier ways to deal with the way that you're feeling.

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And, you know, we went through three counselors with Chloe and before we found the right

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one.

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And all counselors are not the same.

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They're just not.

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They all have different levels of expertise and areas of expertise.

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And sometimes if you don't find the right one the first time, that doesn't mean, well, I

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shouldn't find counselors because that one wasn't good.

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You have to keep searching and looking for the one who meets the needs that you need.

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And the other thing that I think is important

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for, well, there's two things for parents.

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One is when you find that right counselor for your child, be okay with, they're not gonna

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tell you everything, right?

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Counselors don't have to tell you everything about your child unless they're in immediate

23:25

danger or immediate harm to themselves or someone else.

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And one of the greatest things that I think that we ever did for Chloe was when she,

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came out of a counseling session, especially when she was doing EMDR.

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You could tell that she was having a really hard time and that that session was really

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hard.

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It was better not to say, what happened?

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What did y'all talk about?

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How did it go?

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Blah, blah, blah.

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know, all of those questions, because all that does is add to the chaos that she's already

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feeling.

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Instead of just saying, I can tell that you had a hard time.

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I'm here and I love you.

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And that's it.

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Right?

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And just be okay with not knowing all of the details.

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There are still very many details that I don't know about what happened really to Chloe's

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trauma.

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Because she doesn't want to talk about that.

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She shared enough to the counselor that the counselor could help her heal.

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But in some ways when kids are struggling and they don't want to tell you everything,

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sometimes they're trying to protect you too.

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Right?

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Because our kids do love us and they don't want to tell you every detail.

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And really the details aren't even important.

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Right?

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What's important is are we getting the help for our child that they need and are they

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actually healing?

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The other piece of that is that I'll say is that, you know, the first two counselors,

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Chloe got real good at that game.

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She got real good at saying, yeah, it's real good mama.

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I'm better, I'm better.

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And so essentially what she had done, instead of the counselor really challenging her, she

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had learned almost like manipulation tactics, right?

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Like just to say what the counselor wanted her to say to make all of us think that she was

25:21

better, right?

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And then all of a sudden, you know, creeps up.

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self harm episode or whatever, right?

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So obviously she wasn't doing better, but kids are smart.

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And if they think that they're with a counselor or a therapist who's challenging them and

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who's pushing them to be better and to really have to look at the, at the pain that

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they're feeling and almost have to relive it and refee.

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They're like, no, man, I'm out.

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Like, I'm just going to tell you whatever.

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And so that you'll tell my mom, I got a check for today and I'm going to keep moving.

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but you have to outsmart the kid, right?

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Because really in turn, if they're just doing that, what purpose is it serving?

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They're not getting better, they're not learning better techniques, and it's just wasting

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your time and your money.

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You want a counselor who is going to challenge them and make them.

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rethink their past behaviors, right?

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And to relive some of the most scary moments that they've had.

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Rather it's an anxiety attack or it was because they were being bullied or like Chloe, it

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was a sexual assault or whatever it may be.

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You need a counselor who truly has your child's best interest at heart, who wants them to

26:42

do better, right?

26:51

But some of that comes with pushing the kid a little bit further outside of that comfort

26:51

zone than they want to be pushed.

26:59

And that's okay.

27:02

Yeah, and I think that's true with almost every counselor is I think you like need to be

27:02

pushed, like be held accountable for the little task at hand that they give you to work on

27:13

outside of therapy.

27:15

Cause I know like if I wasn't pushed, I'd be like, I'm not going to do this.

27:20

Yeah.

27:20

Yeah.

27:21

Yeah.

27:22

Yeah.

27:23

Exactly.

27:25

We need to, yeah.

27:27

journal because that's really not helping anybody.

27:30

Right.

27:31

But even like for Chloe, I mean, part of her thing was doing art or painting.

27:37

And those were the moments where she could cry and paint.

27:41

She didn't have to talk about it.

27:42

She didn't have to say anything because she could just cry and paint and just let it out

27:42

and in kind of a safe space.

27:49

Um, you know, her, her counselor and therapist would give her like fidget toys and Plato

27:49

type stuff that she could just pull and tear and kind of take out those inner feelings out

28:01

on this object or thing or whatever.

28:05

But it was helpful.

28:07

And the counselor that we, that, I mean, I truly love this girl.

28:11

I mean, she was amazing for Chloe, but she didn't just pop up on some random search.

28:18

It took.

28:19

a good couple of years to find her.

28:22

And I think that, you know, parents need to understand, and even if you're wanting

28:22

counseling for yourself as a parent, or if you yourself are struggling with anxiety or

28:30

depression or any other mental health, right?

28:34

You have to keep searching.

28:36

You can't just say, well, I tried one and it didn't work out for me.

28:43

In order to really to get full healing,

28:47

and kind of be able to step into your new purpose, you have to keep going and you have to

28:47

keep searching.

28:54

And if it takes one or two or three, that's okay.

28:59

That's okay.

29:02

Yeah, I have a friend that actually went through I think five or six therapists before he

29:02

found the right one.

29:08

And I always tell him, that good job, buddy, like you didn't give up.

29:11

That counts, that counts for something.

29:13

It does 100 % it counts for something.

29:17

How do you feel that schools and healthcare providers can do better when working with

29:17

families facing teen mental health challenges?

29:24

Oh man, that's like a loaded question.

29:28

I mean, I've been in medicine for over 25 years, right?

29:31

mean, and so dealing with them in the healthcare realm, it's second nature to me.

29:41

You know, I've sat in many circles with surgeons and doctors and therapists and counselors

29:41

in my job.

29:52

So I kind of know like what to say, how to push back.

29:55

But what I have found is through this is most often parents don't know how to push back.

30:01

They think that just because a doctor, a psychiatrist or whatever says, well, this is what

30:01

you need to do.

30:07

You need to take this pill and add this pill and this pill.

30:12

It's like, okay, well, that's what the doctor said, but sometimes that's not the truth.

30:18

And a parent's instinct or especially a mama's instinct, right?

30:23

We know our kids inside and out.

30:25

We know their facial expressions.

30:27

I can tell you Chloe was starting to have anxiety before she even noticed herself, right?

30:32

Because I was so in tune to what she was doing and how she was saying and her tone and her

30:32

body gestures and all of these things.

30:41

So just because a healthcare provider says you have to do this, you are allowed as the

30:41

parent to ask the hard questions and say, do I have to do that?

30:53

I don't think that's a good fit for my child.

30:56

There were two psychiatrists that I fired and said, sorry, you're not good for my

30:56

daughter.

31:03

And part of that is, is because all they wanted to do was add pill after pill after pill

31:03

to her.

31:10

And, you know, I have most recently, I've been board certified in functional medicine and

31:10

root cause healing needs to be talked about.

31:19

Right?

31:20

Now granted, Chloe had a trauma that was real that we needed to deal with, but adding a

31:20

pill for anxiety and a pill for depression and a pill for this, that's just masking it.

31:32

Okay, and I'm not saying that Chloe didn't need one of those things, cause she did.

31:38

But she didn't need three and she didn't need four because what happens is, is you mix

31:38

this pill with this pill and now we've got an interaction and now we've got a bigger

31:45

problem on her hands.

31:48

And so part of my pushback as a parent was I don't want to just put a bandaid on this.

31:56

I'm not trying to mask what she feels or how she feels.

32:01

I want to know why she feels that way.

32:04

I want her to be able to feel what she feels and then to be able to talk about it.

32:10

And I think that that's important.

32:12

And so as a mom or as a parent, you have a voice.

32:15

Doesn't mean you have to go in there with guns blazing, you know, and you're ready to take

32:15

somebody out, right?

32:20

Cause don't get me wrong.

32:21

I've been there too, right?

32:23

Cause I am a mama bear.

32:25

You don't have to go in there like that, but you can simply say, I don't, I don't think

32:25

that that's right for my child.

32:31

Like I know her, they don't know your child.

32:33

And the other thing about healthcare professionals, and listen, again, I've been in

32:33

medicine for 25 years, right?

32:40

So I can say this because I've been around it a long time.

32:44

But when you're talking about specific like subspecialties of things, psychiatrist, know,

32:44

therapist or whatever it may be, a lot of times they get so accustomed to practicing

32:58

within a box, right?

33:01

that when something comes along that's a little bit outside of that box, it's kind of like

33:01

the zebra, you know, on the outside of the box, the fence, if you will, they're like,

33:13

whoa, I don't know what to do about that.

33:14

So I think we should just throw everything at it at one time and see what happens.

33:18

Or they're so accustomed to treating anxiety, depression, and PTSD that they think that

33:18

one size fits all.

33:24

And that's simply not the case.

33:27

I mean,

33:28

The first psychiatrist we went to put Chloe on some medicine and that girl was

33:28

hallucinating, like seeing things walk out of the walls.

33:36

And when I said, I don't think this is right for her.

33:38

She's like having hallucinations from these medicines.

33:41

He was like, well let's add another one.

33:43

No thanks.

33:44

Okay.

33:45

You're done moving on.

33:48

Right.

33:49

And one size is not fits all with our children or even ourselves for that matter.

33:54

Right.

33:54

We all.

33:55

We all respond differently to medications.

33:57

We all respond to different therapy modalities.

34:03

And sometimes modern medicine gets so fixated on treating the symptom, but not the problem

34:03

or the person.

34:14

And I think that that's important for parents to really understand is that your child or

34:14

you yourself, you're a person and you want to find providers, counselors, therapists,

34:25

psychiatrists, doctors, whatever.

34:29

that recognize you as a whole person, mind, body, and spirit, right?

34:34

And that's very important when you're dealing with someone who is struggling with mental

34:34

health.

34:44

Yeah, I wish I could, there's an applaud button right now because that was fantastic

34:44

because I, I can't like, I've had a few functional medicine specialists come on here and I

34:57

think it's very important to see like the body as a whole.

35:01

And it's helped me in my own experience.

35:03

Like I.

35:05

I had seizures for years and it wasn't until this last year that they're like, I went to a

35:05

functional health doctor and they're like, no, you need to change your diet.

35:13

And it's helped me with my mental health and my seizure.

35:15

I've been seizure free now for.

35:18

Let's see about eight, nine months.

35:21

And I was like, why couldn't the neurologists have told me this?

35:25

And it's like you said, they were too much.

35:27

They get too much in their box to think outside of it.

35:31

So I, yeah, yeah, exactly.

35:34

for modern medicine.

35:35

There's a place for modern medicine.

35:38

But I think when you're treating something like mental health, right?

35:45

There, A, there's always could be a trauma, right?

35:48

Or a trigger or something.

35:50

But there also can be like other root causes within the body, right?

35:56

Like the gut brain health and the gut brain axis is huge.

36:01

And the more you look into how the gut functions, it's really almost like a second brain.

36:10

And if your gut is so out of balance, and let's be honest,

36:15

Most of the stuff that our kids eat today is crap.

36:19

Right?

36:19

It's full of chemicals.

36:20

It's full of dyes.

36:22

It's full of all of these things that are synthetic.

36:26

And I know this ain't the show, but I don't want to get on some weird tangent about this,

36:26

you know, whole thing.

36:31

But like, that's part of it.

36:34

When you feed your children crap and their gut and their body is totally out of whack

36:34

because their body doesn't know what to do with this fake food and processed stuff that

36:43

we're feeding them.

36:47

they're going have other, they're going to have potential issues, right?

36:50

That doesn't say that everything and listen, I mean, my kids grew up eating fast food and

36:50

things,

36:57

I think that as parents we have to be, especially when our kids are struggling, we really

36:57

have to kind of hone into like what's back to the basics, right?

37:06

Sleep.

37:07

How important is sleep?

37:09

It's like number one, right?

37:12

If the kids walking around sleep deprived because they've been staring at their phone till

37:12

3 a.m.

37:16

and they have to get up at six for school, well, do you think that their brain is gonna be

37:16

able to function properly?

37:23

Absolutely not.

37:25

If you're not giving them proper nutrition, again, you're feeding them junk.

37:30

It messes with their brains.

37:31

All these chemicals and processed things that we eat now messes with the brain, especially

37:31

in children whose brains are still developing.

37:40

Right?

37:40

You talk about somebody, kids who just want to sit and hide out in their rooms all the

37:40

time and the pitch black and never step outside because they're so accustomed to playing

37:48

video games and staring at cell phones.

37:51

Sunlight is important.

37:53

Mm-hmm.

37:54

the melatonin in the brain.

37:56

It tells the body on the circadian rhythm when to sleep.

37:59

But if we just let them stare at a screen all the time and they never get to see the sun,

37:59

their body doesn't know what it's doing.

38:07

Yeah, and I could totally tell like when we don't keep a lot of sugar in our house.

38:13

I'm going off on the tangent with you.

38:15

um But we don't keep a lot of sugar in our house.

38:21

We use sugar substitutes such as alulose.

38:25

But I'm not saying we don't give our kids candy ever, because we do.

38:29

But like I can totally tell like if my son eats a bag of Skittles, he's three years old.

38:34

I can totally tell when he does because he all the dyes in it make him fly off his rocker

38:34

like he just goes crazy and it takes almost seems like it takes two or three days to get

38:43

him back to some sense of normal normalcy because he's already in a really intense kid.

38:51

But you know, think that that's like important, right?

38:53

Like, and I think it's all about moderation, right?

38:55

By no means am I one of these like kind of crazy, like, you know, it's you got to only eat

38:55

things that you grow and all this kind of stuff, right?

39:03

Like, I think that that's important.

39:06

But I think it's about moderation.

39:08

You know, yes, can your kid have a little bit of sugar, but does that need to be a hundred

39:08

percent of their diet?

39:14

No.

39:15

Do they need some real vegetables in there?

39:17

Yes.

39:18

Right.

39:19

Can your kid play video games?

39:21

Yes.

39:22

But does that what they need to do 100 % of their time?

39:26

No.

39:27

Right?

39:27

Like it's all about moderation.

39:29

And there's things that as parents we do control.

39:32

Right?

39:33

And I remember when Chloe was at like the peak, right?

39:36

Like after that April 4th day.

39:40

I took her cell phone.

39:42

She was 15 at the time.

39:43

I took her cell phone.

39:45

I went through it.

39:46

I've to, we tuned, mean, looked over that thing with like a fine tooth comb.

39:50

I deleted every contact out of it.

39:53

I changed her phone number.

39:56

Do you think that my 15 year old daughter was happy with me?

39:59

Absolutely not.

40:01

But did I care?

40:03

No.

40:04

Because why?

40:05

I had to make the hard choice as her parent to say, I love you more.

40:09

whatever you're, whoever you're talking to on these phones and all this stuff, it's

40:09

causing you harm.

40:15

You can't see it now, but this is hurting you.

40:19

So because you can't make the decision,

40:22

I'm gonna make it for you.

40:24

So we took it away.

40:25

We changed her phone number.

40:26

We gave her five people's contacts and that was her family and it was like, that's all you

40:26

can talk to.

40:35

And after her 16th birthday, she looked at me and she said, thank you, mama.

40:41

Thank you for making the hard decisions and loving me enough to say no.

40:49

I mean, talk about as a mom and you're like, floor.

40:51

You're like, what did you say?

40:52

Like, can you put that on repeat and like, say it real loud for the people in the back,

40:52

right?

40:56

Because it doesn't feel good to have your kids mad at you, but it also doesn't feel good

40:56

to see your kid hurting and drowning and anxiety and depression and sadness.

41:08

And so like, if I could tell parents one thing, sometimes you have to make that hard

41:08

decision and it's okay to set boundaries for them.

41:16

It's okay.

41:18

to say your cell phone has to be off at nine o'clock and it comes to me.

41:22

You have to be off video games and computers at this time of the night.

41:25

You need to go out and get some form of exercise during the day.

41:29

You need to eat whatever.

41:31

mean, healthier things.

41:32

Like it's okay to say all of that things, but I think a lot of it's like how you spin it,

41:32

right?

41:37

Like we used to have like when Chloe was like in the height of her stuff and we wanted her

41:37

to eat like good food, we'd be like, let's go cook together, right?

41:44

And we would like.

41:46

help each other makes the meal.

41:47

And so she had some say about what she got to eat, right?

41:50

Because she was helping me make it.

41:52

But then I also knew I wasn't feeding her crap.

41:56

And I just think that's how you spin it, right?

41:58

And how, but ultimately it shows them love and to set boundaries and that boundaries are

41:58

okay.

42:04

Boundaries are not meant to harm us.

42:05

They're meant to protect us.

42:08

Yeah, and it's, I like that story of how you added the, that your daughter finally

42:08

realized like you were doing the hard thing for me.

42:16

That's, that's fantastic.

42:18

Cause I think sometimes it takes kids too long to realize that as parents we're only doing

42:18

what we do because we feel like it's the best thing for them whether they realize it now

42:30

or not.

42:32

Well, but right, but remember, our kids are selfish beings by nature, right?

42:37

They're just, they have to be taught to love and to respect and to be kind and thoughtful

42:37

and gracious, right?

42:45

They just don't like, magically know that.

42:49

And so they have to be taught the same thing about boundaries.

42:55

and self-respect and all of those things that has to be taught to them.

42:59

And that's why like I talk about self-care too.

43:02

That's important because you're modeling that for your child.

43:06

And your children are watching every single thing you do, whether it's good or bad.

43:12

And one of the ways that you can help them when they're really struggling is to model good

43:12

behavior.

43:18

Go put your cell phone away at nine o'clock at night.

43:22

You know, eat vegetables with your meals.

43:24

drink plenty of water, whatever.

43:26

You know, I'm just like, those are things of talking about boundaries that you can model

43:26

and exhibit for your kids who are watching.

43:34

Yeah, and my five year old daughter, she'll call me out if I don't put my cell phone away

43:34

when she wants my attention.

43:40

She'll be like, dad, I asked you a question and you're just on your phone.

43:46

She'll flat out call me out.

43:48

And I was like, okay, I'll go put my phone away.

43:50

I'm so sorry that I did that.

43:52

Yeah, and that's exactly what you should do, right?

43:55

Because then you're teaching her that she can say that you're in the wrong and that you're

43:55

going to acknowledge, you know, and she and you're going to you're going to try to do

44:04

right by her.

44:05

yeah.

44:05

I mean, there's still some things with her where we're working on the respect issue right

44:05

now, but she's five.

44:14

My mom claims that sometimes it doesn't come at all.

44:18

I was like, it has to a little bit, hopefully.

44:23

Just trust me, it gets harder as they get older.

44:26

Even when they're young adults, you're like, dear, dear.

44:29

I just think with her, like I'm like in for the long haul.

44:33

think I'm in trouble.

44:35

So how has sharing your story helped you heal?

44:39

And this is kind of a two part question I should say.

44:42

So how's sharing your story helped you heal and how do you hope it helps others rise?

44:49

Yeah, I mean, through the whole thing, like I can really kind of see that there was

44:49

purpose, right?

44:56

And there was going to be purpose in this pain.

44:59

And we can't always see it when we're in the thick of it or we're in the midst of the

44:59

storm and the chaos.

45:05

But I can look back today and say that God was 100 % transforming me in that process, just

45:05

like he was transforming Chloe, right?

45:14

Because through it, like I found out that like,

45:18

A, there's a need to speak up on mental health.

45:21

There's a need to speak up and say, you can advocate for your children.

45:26

You can advocate for yourself.

45:30

But it also has given me the sense of purpose, right?

45:34

Because I think moms and parents, they need to know that.

45:38

They need to know that someone has been through the trenches and that there is hope,

45:38

right?

45:43

And there can be light and there are...

45:46

endless ways to get there.

45:49

But I want people to know that they're not alone, right?

45:54

And oftentimes it's through the midst of the storm and in the greatest amount of chaos

45:54

that beauty is coming from those ashes.

46:03

And I think that that's really important.

46:05

It's not just cliche.

46:07

And a lot of that comes from about the way that you look at it, right?

46:11

If you're looking for something

46:15

and asking God, teach me something, right?

46:17

Teach me what you want me to know.

46:20

Teach me how to be a better mom, a better parent, a better friend, whatever it may be,

46:20

right?

46:28

You're always gonna be shown those things.

46:31

And the other thing that I think that's so important is that people need to understand

46:31

that you're not alone.

46:36

There are people out there that want to help you, that want to be a champion in your

46:36

corner.

46:44

Right.

46:44

And sometimes asking for help and seeking out the help, it's not weakness, it's strength.

46:52

And you need to hear that and say, I'm not alone and I need help.

46:58

And that's okay.

46:59

That's totally okay.

47:01

And I think that that's the biggest thing for me is that I really want people to

47:01

understand that they're not alone.

47:07

Right.

47:07

And that there is purpose.

47:11

in all of this mess and chaos that they're in.

47:15

My hope and goal is that someday Chloe wants to share her story.

47:18

She's not 100 % ready to talk about it right now and that's totally fine.

47:23

But my hope is that someday she will want to tell her story enough so that she can help

47:23

that other girl who is struggling with what she's been through.

47:33

Right?

47:33

Because what people need is connection.

47:36

People need to feel heard and seen.

47:40

And that's what I want people to think of when they think of Warrior Mom.

47:44

Right?

47:45

Is she hears me, she sees me, she gets me.

47:50

Yeah, very well said.

47:51

And I think the more people we have openly talking about mental health struggles, it's

47:51

just gonna be a continuous thing.

48:01

I feel like I had to hear somebody's story before I was vulnerable enough to get my story

48:01

out there.

48:09

Okay.

48:12

As you were writing your book, did you feel it was more therapeutic or was it more like

48:12

hard to like write down your thoughts on paper because of like, like you felt like

48:25

reliving it?

48:27

It was definitely cathartic.

48:30

I mean, it was definitely cathartic.

48:32

I mean, I never set out to be an author, um but last fall, I really felt like God was

48:32

saying, you need to write the book.

48:39

You need to tell the story, but from your perspective, right?

48:43

You can tell the tidbits of Chloe and what happened in the kind of walking through her

48:43

journey, but I'm not telling it from Chloe's perspective or how she felt.

48:51

I'm telling it from my perspective as her mother, right?

48:54

The one who was...

48:56

also in the trenches with her, but dealing with different things, my own kind of grief, my

48:56

own guilt and shame and all of those things.

49:02

And I talk very openly about that in the book.

49:06

My hope is, is that people can see that it's raw and it's real and it's honest and still

49:06

know that I feel like there's still beauty in that story, right?

49:20

Because, because there is.

49:21

And

49:24

It was probably one of the most cathartic things that I could have done.

49:27

You I think that that's important to say, like why they tell therapists often say, why

49:27

don't you journal your thoughts?

49:33

Right?

49:34

Because writing it down and getting it out of kind of your heart and out of your brain

49:34

onto something else paper that's tangible.

49:43

It is freeing, right?

49:44

It is cathartic.

49:44

It's healing.

49:46

So for me, was definitely, it was an act of obedience to write the book, but it was also

49:53

cathartic.

49:56

love it.

49:57

I think it's great that you wrote it from your perspective.

50:02

Well, I mean, oftentimes when you talk about mental health, right, you want to hear it's

50:02

about me, what happened to me, right?

50:09

Or what happened, how can we help the teen, but the mom or the parent who's dealing with

50:09

the struggle and the storm and trying to put out all the fires, you know, for me, it was

50:20

trying to keep her alive.

50:21

Like that was my whole goal is I got to keep this child alive, right?

50:24

And I think oftentimes our perspectives

50:28

get overshadowed because it's all about trying to help the child.

50:33

And that's important, right?

50:35

There's plenty of help out there, you know, on Google or whatever about how to help the

50:35

team, right?

50:42

Tips to help your team, tips to help, you know, help them overcome and deal with this.

50:47

But there's very little about the parent, right?

50:51

And how to nurture the parent and how to help them push through

50:57

having to put out all the fires all the time.

51:02

If a mom is listening today, feels like, if mom listening today feels like she is at the

51:02

end of her rope, what is the first step she can take right now?

51:13

Well, first, ask for help, right?

51:15

Make sure that you know that you're not alone.

51:17

I have a free Facebook group called Warrior Mom Rising on Facebook.

51:21

You literally can just ask to join the group.

51:24

And it's a group of women who lift each other up, right?

51:28

All of our stories are different.

51:29

Some in there have had their children, their grown children even, that are struggling with

51:29

addictions.

51:34

Some of it's mental health.

51:35

It's not all the same story.

51:37

But it is a group where you can say, I'm struggling today and I need prayer.

51:42

I need support.

51:43

need, you know, I need wisdom.

51:45

Great.

51:46

That's, that's an easy and it's free.

51:48

Right.

51:49

You can also go to my website, warriormomcoach.net.

51:52

I have free resources on there.

51:53

you have, can download my book, my ebook.

51:56

I also have a devotional that I wrote that you can download on there.

52:00

And I think that that's important, right?

52:02

Moms.

52:03

We need to, we really sometimes need to tap back into our faith and that stronger power

52:03

that's out there, right?

52:10

Because we need strength and power to keep moving forward in this hard season.

52:15

And then of course, my book is on Amazon as well.

52:19

Well, I usually ask a pretty generalized question, but you already answered it.

52:26

So I'll ask it anyways.

52:28

And if you want to go into more detail, then do so.

52:31

What in your mind is the biggest stigma when it comes to mental health?

52:38

judgment, the fear of judgment, and people not wanting to have honest discussions about

52:38

it.

52:45

Right.

52:47

And the only way to heal or to get better or to help someone who is struggling is to get

52:47

honest about it.

52:52

Right.

52:53

You have to have open, honest connections in conversations in order to move past it.

53:01

Right.

53:01

Like, it's just like anything else.

53:02

Right.

53:02

Like you think about marriage, right.

53:04

Like marriage is not easy.

53:06

And sometimes you hurt each other's feelings, but you have to have honest conversations

53:06

and say, listen, when you said this, you hurt my feelings, right?

53:13

It doesn't mean that you don't like the person.

53:15

It just means that there's something that's happening and the only way to heal it is to

53:15

communicate and to talk about it, right?

53:24

And it's the same thing with mental health.

53:26

Like let go of the judgment, let go of the pressure that says you can't be struggling with

53:26

that because that's not what society says.

53:36

you're entitled to your feelings, but you're also entitled to your reactions to those

53:36

feelings.

53:44

And you are responsible and accountable for those reactions, right?

53:49

And that's why I think that, you know, when you can seek out counseling and therapists

53:49

that can help you and teach you better, healthier coping mechanisms and rely on their

53:58

expertise, that's what's needed.

54:02

But people have to let go.

54:05

and not be judgy and not be pointing fingers or blame because sometimes things aren't what

54:05

you think they are or they're not the root cause.

54:19

not anxious because of what you think.

54:22

And it's just about getting to the truth and having those hard conversations but listening

54:22

to one another.

54:30

Truly listening.

54:33

and not trying to fix it because sometimes you just can't fix it when people are really

54:33

struggling.

54:37

You just have to be that listening ear and support to them.

54:43

Very well said.

54:44

I love all the answers I get on that question.

54:47

Yep, I bet.

54:49

You've mentioned your website.

54:50

Where else can people find you?

54:53

So I'm on Facebook, Warrior Mom Rising, there's the group.

54:55

I'm on Instagram, Warrior Mom, underscore Jen Robb.

54:59

And then of course my website and then my book is on Amazon.

55:03

And we covered a lot of topics today.

55:06

Is there anything that you'd like to bring up that we did not discuss?

55:11

No, I think we covered a whole lot.

55:14

Yeah, I try to get everything in there as much as I can.

55:19

So, well, Jen, thank you so much for coming on the show.

55:25

I, I admire the message that you're pushing and I'm, it's clear to me that God has a

55:25

purpose for your daughter and I wish her the best in her fight and I love what you're

55:38

doing.

55:38

So thank you so much for spending an hour with me.

55:42

Yeah, thanks.

55:43

Thanks for having it.

55:44

Yeah.

55:45

And thank you to all those that are listening.

55:47

If you can relate to this story, please push the share button.

55:50

Listen to us.

55:50

You can listen to us on all major podcasts platforms and thanks again for listening until

55:50

next time.