Healing with Humor: Finding Purpose After 14 Lost Years | Dave Mowry

0:03

What if one of the darkest

0:03

periods of your life eventually

0:06

became

0:07

the thing that gave you purpose?

0:08

Dave Mowry was a successful

0:08

businessman with a family,

0:12

a home, and what looked like a

0:12

secure life.

0:15

Then his mental health

0:15

collapsed.

0:18

For the next 14 years, Dave

0:18

battled bipolar disorder,

0:22

severe anxiety, depression,

0:22

panic attacks,

0:26

financial loss, and even

0:26

homelessness.

0:28

There were days when getting out

0:28

of bed felt impossible.

0:32

Times when simply answering the

0:32

door or talking to another

0:35

person could trigger

0:36

a panic attack. But Dave kept

0:36

trying,

0:39

and eventually something

0:39

unexpected helped change the way

0:43

he looked

0:44

at everything he had been

0:44

through.

0:48

Stand-up comedy. Dave learned

0:48

how to find humor inside some

0:51

of his darkest experiences, and

0:51

today he teaches other people

0:55

living with mental

0:56

illness how to tell their

0:56

stories one joke at a time.

0:59

In this episode, we talk about

0:59

losing everything,

1:02

suffering in silence, and the

1:02

importance of having someone in

1:06

your corner,

1:07

finding purpose after your old

1:07

life disappears,

1:10

and what Dave calls acceptance

1:10

without resignation.

1:12

This is Dave Mowry's story. But

1:12

before we jump in,

1:17

I also want to tell you about

1:17

something I've been working on

1:20

called Rebuild with

1:21

Faith. It's a guided journaling

1:21

app built around the faith

1:25

framework,

1:25

foundation, attitude, integrity,

1:28

trust, and humility. The idea is

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1:32

When life feels heavy,

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uncertain,

1:34

or like you're starting over,

1:34

rebuild with faith gives you

1:37

daily questions

1:38

and space to slow down, reflect,

1:40

and focus on what you can

1:40

control.

1:42

It's not about having all the

1:42

answers.

1:44

It's about taking one stuff,

1:44

small step forward at a time.

1:48

You'll be hearing more about

1:48

Rebuild with Faith soon.

1:50

But for now, you can visit

1:50

RebuildwithFaithapp dot

1:55

com to learn as much as you can.

1:58

But the app is still in

1:58

progress.

2:00

Now let's get into my

2:00

conversation with Dave Mowry.

2:06

Dave, why don't you go ahead and

2:06

start us off with your story?

2:10

thanks, Travis. gosh, I'd go

2:10

back to well,

2:15

I was a successful businessman.

2:18

my wife and I, we seemed to,

2:21

you know, we seemed to have it

2:21

all secure income and nice

2:27

house,

2:28

great family. And then in

2:28

nineteen ninety six I was

2:32

driving down the freeway.

2:34

I was extremely distressed. I

2:34

was going in between our

2:38

businesses and

2:42

the stress, the anxiety, it was

2:42

just overwhelming and it just

2:45

got to me

2:45

and my mind snapped. I I could

2:45

literally feel it.

2:49

It was like an electric shock in

2:49

my brain.

2:51

I I could hear it. It was like a

2:51

little twig breaking.

2:54

It's know, a little snap and my

2:54

my mind just snapped and my my

2:59

the muscles

2:59

in my face went slack and my

2:59

voice went monotone and my

3:04

vision

3:04

got blurry and my mind got dull

3:04

and it was everything I could

3:09

do.

3:10

just to get home. I went

3:10

straight upstairs.

3:14

Yes.

3:15

I laid down on the bed and just

3:15

tried to hang on,

3:20

just tried to hold on. And that

3:20

was the beginning of my fourteen

3:25

lost years.

3:26

I call them my lost years, my

3:26

dark days where for fourteen

3:30

years I couldn't work.

3:32

I couldn't interact socially. I

3:32

was just broken.

3:37

I was just broken.

3:39

And that was due to my

3:39

undiagnosed bipolar disorder and

3:42

my severe anxiety.

3:45

And when during those dark

3:45

years,

3:47

what did what I would call,

3:50

you know, normal for the

3:50

darkness,

3:53

what did one of those normal

3:53

days look like for you?

3:56

Boy. the days were different

3:56

early on with the I just was in

4:01

a deep,

4:01

deep, dark depression. And you

4:01

know,

4:07

early on it was everything I

4:07

could do to get out of bed and

4:10

to

4:10

go downstairs and just to sit on

4:10

the couch.

4:14

and when I did,

4:17

it was everything I could do

4:17

just to hold it together and

4:22

just to be.

4:23

I just try to breathe and I just

4:25

try to be and just try to calm

4:25

my mind

4:30

and just I I'd pray just I'd

4:30

pray for peace of mind.

4:36

Yeah.

4:37

and that was what was going on

4:37

for the first months

4:43

and months of my my my last

4:43

years,

4:49

my dark days. And

4:53

I couldn't like I said, I

4:53

couldn't interact socially,

4:55

so I I was afraid to talk to

4:55

people.

4:59

I avoided people, I avoided

4:59

situations.

5:04

Yeah.

5:04

I

5:04

couldn't go to the mailbox

5:04

during the daytime because I was

5:08

afraid I'd

5:08

run into a neighbor and they'd

5:08

ask me how I was doing.

5:11

And they'd look in my eyes and

5:11

they'd see that I was not well.

5:15

and so I I went to the mailbox

5:15

at night when I knew I

5:22

be able to

5:22

Yes.

5:22

see anybody. And I pretended to

5:22

be okay.

5:26

It was it was everything I could

5:26

do,

5:28

just you know, I just pretended

5:28

to be okay and it was pretending

5:32

to be okay

5:33

it was just exhausting.

5:36

Yeah, it gets really exhausting.

5:37

I could actually relate to your

5:37

story a little bit.

5:40

I had some t about ten to twelve

5:40

years of pretty much suffering

5:46

in silence and some dark, dark

5:46

years.

5:50

I back in two thousand nine I

5:50

started having a a seizure

5:54

disorder.

5:55

And you know, where for a couple

5:55

of months where had tons of

6:00

seizures

6:01

and then the anxiety and

6:01

depression came in.

6:03

There was years that I couldn't

6:03

hold down a job.

6:07

I was embarrassed of like my

6:07

situation.

6:09

I didn't want anybody to know

6:09

and I didn't know like what was

6:13

going

6:14

on with my mental health. I

6:14

didn't want to admit that I had

6:16

a problem.

6:16

So I could r I relate to some of

6:16

that stuff.

6:19

So it's it's really actually

6:19

quite scary.

6:23

Yeah, and you know, there's the

6:23

shame involved,

6:28

Yeah, the shame involved and not

6:28

wanting other people to know.

6:32

Like you said, suffering and

6:32

silence.

6:34

I that's why I describe it too,

6:35

suffering and silence, hiding in

6:35

the shadows.

6:38

Yeah,

6:41

Yeah and what?

6:41

it

6:42

was it was awful. The the depth

6:42

of the darkness,

6:46

the depression. you know, it's

6:46

almost it's almost indescribable

6:52

for

6:53

For someone who hasn't been

6:53

there it's really it's really

6:57

indescribable

6:58

the depth and the hollowness and

6:58

and the darkness

7:04

and the toll it takes on your

7:04

mind and your body.

7:08

yes, yes it is. And to this day

7:08

I I I've been asked

7:14

the question how would you

7:14

describe it in one word?

7:16

I said I can't. Until you've

7:16

been there and physically lived

7:21

it and know what that

7:23

darkness does to your mind and

7:23

how it overpowers every single

7:27

thing that

7:28

you deal with on a daily basis.

7:29

You can't describe it.

7:31

Yeah, that's

7:32

exactly right. It's it's you

7:32

can't describe it.

7:35

Just the depth the depth of the

7:35

darkness is is it's all

7:41

consuming.

7:43

Yes, it is for sure. So before

7:43

this you said you were a

7:47

successful businessman.

7:49

Like do you feel like when you

7:49

were working and

7:55

had a steady job? Were you just

7:55

one of the I wanna say

8:01

the the quiet ones or at this

8:01

point did you not realize that

8:05

something

8:06

was going on in your mind? Like

8:06

what what did that look like?

8:10

You

8:10

know, I had indicators and I had

8:10

my throughout all my adult life

8:16

I'd had my ups and downs. y you

8:16

know,

8:20

so I'd had I'd slid into the

8:20

times of depression,

8:25

and I'd had my highs from the

8:25

mania,

8:30

but they weren't too high and

8:30

they weren't too low,

8:34

but as I got older they got

8:34

higher,

8:36

me the

8:38

the highs got higher and the

8:38

lows got lower.

8:40

And so I I had this going on and

8:40

I'd always had the anxiety.

8:46

The anxiety was was constant

8:46

with me and mostly associated

8:52

with

8:53

the depression. And and so I had

8:53

had the anxiety.

8:57

And so the anxiety had been

8:57

building.

8:59

So I'd had indications that that

8:59

things weren't right,

9:03

that things weren't well. But

9:07

there was no way to predict what

9:07

and when and how it happened to

9:11

me.

9:13

Yeah, yeah. I always have

9:13

believed that mental health is

9:19

just

9:19

a totally unpredictable thing.

9:21

It's there's no way to know

9:21

what's gonna happen tomorrow.

9:26

And sometimes with what you

9:26

described,

9:28

you're lucky just to get out of

9:28

bed.

9:31

Yeah, exactly. And and you know,

9:37

I was I w I I was lucky and and

9:37

you know,

9:39

I'd I'd sleep in my clothes. It

9:39

was too much to take my clothes

9:43

off and

9:43

put back on in the morning. So

9:43

I'd sleep in my clothes.

9:46

I I didn't shower for weeks and

9:46

weeks

9:53

and weeks and weeks, which is

9:53

really common.

9:55

most people don't realize, but

9:55

it's really common when

9:58

somebody's in a

9:59

a a true depression.

10:01

You know, a

10:01

Yeah.

10:02

true depression that showering

10:02

is is almost in impossible.

10:05

It's un

10:08

It's overwhelming to just be

10:08

able to take a shower.

10:12

So I I went weeks and weeks and

10:12

weeks and weeks and weeks.

10:15

It's almost embarrassing now to

10:15

talk about it,

10:17

you know, months without

10:17

showering.

10:19

And it was just too much. It was

10:19

too much to take my clothes off,

10:21

Yeah, yeah.

10:22

to turn on the water,

10:23

to get in the shower. and it was

10:23

it was just everything was just

10:27

too much.

10:27

I don't think it's good.

10:30

Just too much.

10:33

Do you feel at times that you're

10:33

I'm trying to think of how to

10:38

word this?

10:39

At times well I'll say how I

10:39

envision it in my mind

10:46

and you can tell me if y you

10:46

understand what I'm trying to

10:48

say.

10:51

So there's times I where I feel

10:51

like my anxiety is just tops my

10:56

depression.

10:57

yeah.

10:58

Would you say one tops like the

10:58

other one?

11:02

yeah. The anxiety I

11:03

Yeah.

11:04

mean,

11:04

boy, you know, depression you

11:04

can't do anything.

11:06

I couldn't do anything. I was,

11:08

Mm-hmm.

11:08

you

11:08

know, just existing. But the

11:08

anxiety was active and it was

11:16

Gosh, it was constant and

11:22

Who I'd have panic attacks. I'd

11:22

l like I talked about not being

11:26

able to see people,

11:27

you know, or interact with

11:27

people.

11:29

If I had to interact with

11:29

somebody and had to open myself

11:33

up or be visible

11:34

to I'd have a panic attack. I'd

11:34

I'd start to sweat and the sweat

11:38

would pour down

11:39

my face and I'd soak my collar,

11:41

my shirt collar, my armpits and

11:41

my back.

11:44

and and so there

11:49

was total avoidance of

11:52

of anything. You know, if there

11:52

was a knock on the door,

11:56

I'd have a panic attack and I'd

11:56

go into the bathroom and I'd

11:59

hide in the bathroom,

12:00

even though, you know, it wasn't

12:00

anybody for me.

12:02

if the phone rang, same thing

12:02

would happen.

12:06

I'd I'd the anxiety would would

12:06

just spike.

12:09

and I'd have to,

12:12

you know, sit and breathe and

12:12

take deep breaths and just just

12:19

breathe.

12:19

Just breathe.

12:21

trying to get through it, trying

12:21

to get through it.

12:23

but the anxiety, you know, the

12:23

bipolar disorder,

12:27

the mania was was awful, but it

12:27

was temporary.

12:32

You know, I mean w mine would

12:32

last

12:34

Yeah.

12:34

a long time, months and months

12:34

and months,

12:36

unlike some other people where

12:36

it was shorter experiences,

12:40

but mine would last months and

12:40

months and months.

12:42

And the depression would also

12:42

last months and months and

12:45

months.

12:47

but it would eventually go away.

12:49

But the anxiety was constant. It

12:49

was always there.

12:53

And it was it was just it was

12:53

always there.

12:59

And I apologize if you hear

12:59

screaming kids in the

13:01

background.

13:02

Yep, yep.

13:02

Those are yours? Okay, that's

13:02

good.

13:05

That's good. I was thinking

13:05

maybe they're my grandkids who

13:06

are downstairs.

13:06

No, nope, but

13:09

I have young kids out here

13:09

outside the door,

13:12

Yeah, that's fine. I'm good with

13:12

it.

13:13

so

13:14

I'm good with it. I'm good with

13:16

it. We've got three grandkids

13:16

living with us,

13:18

my daughter and three grandkids,

13:20

so I'm used to the yeah.

13:21

Till you're used to the yeah.

13:23

Yeah. As long as it's

13:24

on your end and I don't have to

13:24

worry about it on my end,

13:27

I'm good.

13:28

Nope, it's it's totally on my

13:28

end.

13:30

Okay, cool. Cool.

13:32

So speaking of family, during

13:32

these dark times,

13:35

what did your relationship with

13:35

your family look like?

13:38

Wow,

13:43

We you know, we we had the

13:43

businesses and we were

13:47

successful and we ended

13:49

up losing it all. we we sold the

13:49

businesses fire sale and we were

13:55

hundreds

13:56

of thousands of dollars in debt.

13:57

we ended up homeless for

13:57

eighteen months.

14:00

But my wife, who is the hero of

14:00

my story,

14:04

she she held us together as a

14:04

family.

14:08

And she worked with the

14:08

creditors and

14:15

Yeah.

14:15

yeah, sh you know, she was

14:15

amazing.

14:17

I I was married once before and

14:17

when I was really young

14:22

and my wife left me and

14:28

the she's the reason she left me

14:28

is because she said I wasn't fun

14:31

anymore.

14:32

And what had happened was I had

14:32

slid into a depression and been

14:36

in depressed for quite some time

14:36

and so,

14:39

you know, I wasn't fun anymore.

14:41

But for her that was too much.

14:43

And but my wife Heather, she's

14:43

she stayed with me.

14:48

She held us together. And you

14:48

know,

14:52

it was challenging with the kids

14:52

because I'd been an active dad

14:55

and played with

14:56

the kids and just really

14:56

involved.

14:58

And when I was down and out,

15:02

I couldn't play with them. it

15:02

was really difficult.

15:05

They'd come up into the bedroom

15:05

and you know

15:10

the our play was them jumping

15:10

over me in bed,

15:13

you know, when I was laying in

15:13

bed and jumping over me and

15:17

jumping

15:17

on the bed around me. so that

15:17

was really difficult.

15:21

When we were homeless, we ended

15:21

up living in the basement of

15:24

some friend's house

15:25

Okay.

15:25

and the kids slept in an alcove

15:25

on air mattresses in an alcove

15:30

under the stairs.

15:31

y y you know the sense

15:37

of letting the family down

15:40

being a failure

15:42

of disappointment of you know

15:42

was

15:47

Yeah.

15:48

was pretty was pretty awful.

15:51

But you know the

15:55

the the kids came through it.

15:59

They were young. They were eight

15:59

and ten and so they came through

16:04

it but

16:05

it was hard on them as well.

16:08

Yeah, and I I love that you

16:08

brought in your wife and I I

16:13

feel like behind

16:14

a lot of stories that

16:14

discussions that I have,

16:17

it's what's the scene? Something

16:17

like what is it?

16:21

Behind every strong man there's

16:21

a stronger woman.

16:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know,

16:29

she sh she never thought about

16:29

leaving me,

16:32

which I'm so fortunate.

16:35

If she would have I would have

16:35

probably still to this day been

16:40

living

16:40

in a single room occupancy hotel

16:40

down in Old Town Portland

16:44

and I wouldn't be well.

16:49

I know I wouldn't be well. There

16:49

was there was a day one of the

16:53

things

16:54

I did during the

16:55

the

16:55

fourteen years is I had to do

16:55

something.

16:58

I kept trying. as I got a little

16:58

bit better and a little bit

17:02

better,

17:03

I and I could get out of the

17:03

house.

17:05

I I kept trying. And and one of

17:05

the things I did was I took

17:09

classes

17:09

down at Portland State

17:09

University trying to working

17:14

working when I

17:15

I when I was going to college,

17:18

I would go to college,

17:22

things were great.

17:23

And I'd go along, but then I

17:23

when I slid into a depression I

17:27

wouldn't be able to go.

17:28

So I'd I'd go and I wouldn't and

17:28

I'd go and I wouldn't.

17:32

And so it took years, and years

17:32

and years.

17:36

And then so but I kept trying

17:36

and I signed up for classes and

17:40

started taking classes

17:42

at Portland State working toward

17:42

my degree and

17:45

Yeah.

17:46

one of the classes. It it was I

17:46

did it and it was okay because I

17:49

could be invisible.

17:50

You know, you have these big

17:50

classes and I could be invisible

17:55

and you know,

17:56

I could hide in the shadows, I

17:56

could,

17:58

you know, stand up against the

17:58

wall,

18:00

try to blend into the wall and

18:00

not interact with anybody,

18:03

not not not, you know, look at

18:03

anybody.

18:06

but there was this one class

18:06

where it was smaller and I'd sit

18:12

in the back right

18:14

Corner of the class because

18:14

there was nobody beside me on my

18:18

right,

18:18

and there was nobody behind me.

18:20

the person in front of me, it

18:20

was just the back of their head,

18:24

they couldn't see me, and then

18:24

the person beside me on the left

18:28

was the only vulnerable spot,

18:28

and I never looked to my left.

18:32

But this class,

18:35

the professor would have us

18:35

break out into small groups from

18:39

time to time,

18:40

and the first time he he did it.

18:41

Yeah.

18:43

and I had to interact with

18:43

people.

18:44

I had a panic attack,

18:44

overwhelming.

18:46

Well

18:48

I mean just terrible panic

18:49

attack, sweating and my voice

18:49

went monotone again and my

18:54

vision blurred

18:55

and I just had to escape and so

18:55

I I left the room and I went

19:00

into

19:00

the to the bathroom and went sat

19:00

in a stall and just tried to

19:05

breathe

19:05

and just just try just tried to

19:05

breathe.

19:08

and

19:10

prayed for peace of mind until

19:10

the class was over and then I

19:13

snuck back

19:14

in and got my back back and one

19:14

of the one of the times this

19:17

happened to me,

19:18

I was sitting out in front,

19:18

Heather was picking me up from

19:19

Yeah.

19:22

from school and I was sitting in

19:22

front of the building,

19:27

sitting on the sidewalk with my

19:27

back up against the wall of the

19:31

building

19:31

and she was late. And I knew if

19:31

she didn't come that I wasn't

19:36

getting up.

19:37

You know, I was I was just done.

19:39

I just

19:40

was done. I wasn't getting I

19:40

couldn't get up.

19:43

I couldn't move. I couldn't make

19:43

a phone call.

19:45

I couldn't do anything. I just

19:45

was done.

19:47

and you know, she got there and

19:47

she helped me get in the car and

19:52

then

19:52

we were driving home and we

19:52

drove through Old Town and I saw

19:57

the people,

19:58

you know, that were homeless

19:58

sitting on the sidewalk.

20:02

And I saw the blank look in

20:02

their face and you know,

20:06

realized that was me, if not for

20:06

Heather,

20:08

if

20:09

that

20:10

was me.

20:12

Yeah, it's it's my my story to

20:12

some degree is similar.

20:18

I I have a strong one behind me.

20:20

I was and I I honestly to this

20:20

day don't believe that if I was

20:25

with somebody else,

20:26

I don't think she would have

20:26

stayed.

20:27

But she we were

20:30

Yeah.

20:31

engaged for ten year ten years.

20:33

And she stood by me the whole

20:33

time.

20:39

there was a time where I had to

20:39

before we were married that I

20:41

had to live with

20:42

her and her mom because I I

20:42

couldn't make it on my own

20:45

'cause I was so far gone.

20:47

but now we we got married in two

20:47

thousand nineteen.

20:52

We have four kids and things are

20:52

I mean good.

20:58

Not to say that it'll still have

20:58

my hard days because I don't

21:01

think this stuff

21:02

really ever totally goes away.

21:04

Yeah. Yeah. No, it doesn't.

21:04

Yeah.

21:04

I think it's just getting the

21:04

techniques to

21:07

learn how to deal with it.

21:09

Yeah. Yeah. No, you've been busy

21:09

between twenty thousand nineteen

21:13

and twenty six with four kids.

21:14

You've you made up for lots of

21:14

time.

21:16

Yes. Yes, I did. yeah,

21:17

You made up for those ten years,

21:18

you know. Yeah.

21:20

well

21:20

well we're older and we we I

21:20

just hit forty,

21:23

so we wanted to hit our we w

21:23

always wanted

21:25

Yeah.

21:26

four kids, and we wanted to hit

21:26

that last kid by the time we

21:28

were forty,

21:28

so we did it

21:29

Yeah. Yeah, that's great.

21:31

I think I think it's super. And

21:31

yeah,

21:33

kids I know, my kids, my

21:33

grandkids,

21:36

it's it's great. I mean,

21:40

it's great. Kids are great.

21:40

Yeah,

21:44

I'm I I w my favorite job was

21:44

being a dad.

21:50

Yeah. It's it's it's challenging

21:50

but fun.

21:54

That's right. That's right.

21:54

That's right.

21:57

Lots of fun.

21:59

So with everything you went

21:59

through,

22:01

was there a a bri breaking point

22:01

of where you thought to

22:06

yourself,

22:07

What do I need to do to get

22:07

through this?

22:10

What what was that point where

22:10

you started pushing through and

22:15

saw some light

22:16

at the end of the tunnel?

22:19

Yeah, it was there was no

22:19

breakthrough point necessarily,

22:24

but I you know, I slowly,

22:24

gradually got better.

22:29

I it was slow. obviously with

22:29

fourteen years,

22:33

you know, it it was very slow.

22:36

and but I I like I said,

22:40

I kept trying. So I think that

22:40

was the thing.

22:43

E little things when I

22:47

when I was able to get up and go

22:47

downstairs,

22:50

I'd sit in a different spot on

22:50

the couch or sit in a different

22:56

chair just just

22:57

you know, just to to do

22:57

something to try to make a

23:01

difference.

23:02

And I'd do just whatever small

23:02

thing.

23:05

And so I I just kept trying and

23:05

but it

23:10

was two thousand nine,

23:13

I guess, two thousand ten.

23:15

I

23:15

I kept trying to work and

23:19

when I was thinking maybe I

23:19

could do it,

23:22

I'd go interview and I'd I I I'd

23:22

get a job offer and

23:27

I'd last a couple of weeks.

23:31

The anxiety was overwhelming and

23:31

the depression I was still

23:35

depressed

23:35

and I just couldn't do it. I

23:35

tried and tried and I couldn't

23:38

do it.

23:39

But I I kept trying. And then in

23:44

Two thousand ten I got a minimum

23:44

wage,

23:48

twelve hour a week job at Macy's

23:48

in downtown Portland

23:52

and worked and was able to go I

23:52

rode

23:59

the bus down. and I was able to

23:59

work

24:05

and I worked and I made it for a

24:05

year and that was huge.

24:09

You know, it was like I said, I

24:09

was

24:13

You know, it's low stress, it

24:13

was minimum wage,

24:16

Yeah,

24:16

it was twelve hours,

24:18

it wasn't so it

24:20

Yeah.

24:20

was hard but it wasn't

24:20

overwhelming.

24:22

And I was when I made it I made

24:22

it to a year and that was just a

24:27

huge success.

24:29

Well and I feel that in these

24:29

situations you have to take

24:33

those small steps

24:35

in order to push forward to

24:35

something bigger.

24:39

I was in the same boat. I

24:39

couldn't hold down jobs for more

24:43

than two or three weeks.

24:45

Yeah.

24:47

And then finally I got this

24:47

retail job and I told myself I

24:51

can do this.

24:52

It's only going to be about

24:52

twenty hours a week,

24:55

but I can do this.

24:57

And I actually went in there and

24:57

I excelled.

24:59

And then I after a while I was

24:59

like,

25:01

well, I can do more. I can do

25:01

more.

25:04

And that's when I got more into

25:04

the tech industry what I'm in

25:09

right now.

25:09

But it it

25:10

Mm-hmm.

25:11

just started out with 20 hours a

25:11

week.

25:15

Yeah, and that's

25:17

I think I had to you know,

25:22

accepting my my state of mind,

25:27

my w my place, what had

25:27

happened,

25:30

acceptance was a challenge for

25:30

me.

25:33

mostly when I could be aware of

25:33

things that were going on and

25:39

mostly

25:39

I was pissed off.

25:41

You know, because we did have it

25:41

all,

25:42

things were great. And then, you

25:42

know,

25:44

we lost everything. We are

25:44

hundreds of thousands of dollars

25:47

in debt.

25:47

We're homeless. We're all these

25:47

things.

25:50

And and but it took a long time

25:50

for me

25:55

to accept the fact that like I

25:55

said,

25:59

I'd you know, I rode the bus

25:59

downtown to Macy's to work and

26:02

I'd see other people

26:03

on the bus and before we had two

26:03

luxury cars and

26:12

You

26:12

know. and here I was, we had one

26:12

old car.

26:17

My wife was driving it because

26:17

she was working and I was taking

26:20

the bus

26:21

and I'd see other people in the

26:21

bus and I'd think or initially

26:25

I'd think,

26:25

you know, that's not me, that's

26:25

not me and then at a certain

26:29

point it was,

26:30

yeah, that is me. And just like

26:30

seeing the people on the street,

26:34

you know, the homeless people or

26:34

the people that were mentally

26:37

ill that were

26:38

You know what we're saying?

26:39

on the street and

26:41

realizing that, you know, that

26:41

was me.

26:43

And so getting to that point of

26:43

accepting the fact that I had

26:46

a serious mental illness, that I

26:46

was that I was broken,

26:52

that I couldn't work and all

26:52

these things.

26:57

but I think, you know, I did

26:57

keep trying and I I and I what I

27:01

call

27:02

it now is acceptance without

27:02

resignation.

27:04

I didn't resign myself to the

27:04

fact that that's always how it's

27:07

gonna be.

27:09

Yeah, I

27:10

I really like that.

27:11

Yeah. So I I I accepted it. I

27:11

didn't resign myself to it.

27:16

So that allowed me to keep

27:16

trying.

27:17

I didn't give up and say this is

27:17

how it's always gonna be,

27:20

so why try? I I kept trying.

27:26

And when did your actual bipolar

27:26

diagnosis come into play?

27:33

Hm. I you know, I I I went into

27:37

the psychiatric unit when when I

27:37

had my breakdown and

27:42

the the depression was obvious.

27:45

When you've got depression,

27:45

people can see it you're really

27:47

slow,

27:48

you talk slow, you're down,

27:48

you're monotone,

27:50

you're all these different

27:50

things,

27:52

and so it's visible. But with

27:52

the mania

27:56

you just feel good and it's not

27:56

visible because you don't go in

28:00

and you're

28:01

not I I'm at least for me, I

28:01

didn't go in,

28:04

I wasn't bouncing up all. And so

28:04

it took years and years and

28:07

years

28:08

to get diagnosed correctly with

28:08

the bipolar disorder.

28:10

Yeah.

28:13

so I w I don't know exactly when

28:13

that happened,

28:17

but it was

28:20

It was years. It was probably

28:20

eight years after I had my

28:23

breakdown before

28:24

I was and maybe nine years b ten

28:24

years before I was actually

28:27

diagnosed with bipolar

28:28

disorder and started to get

28:28

treated for it and

28:35

get on the right medications

28:35

and,

28:37

you know, finally over time

28:37

found the right combination of

28:41

medications that that

28:42

worked so that and and still

28:42

today,

28:45

you know, I I

28:47

I still have my ups and downs,

28:49

but when I when I start going up

28:49

into the mania,

28:54

it I don't go as high and it

28:54

doesn't last as long.

28:57

And the same thing with the

28:57

depression.

29:00

I don't go as low and and I know

29:00

it's gonna end.

29:04

So it gives me some peace of

29:04

mind knowing,

29:05

okay, this is temporary because

29:05

before when I was going through

29:09

it it wasn't temporary. I mean

29:09

it was,

29:11

you know,

29:14

It was it was it was there and

29:14

it was there for a long time.

29:17

And I think the other thing too

29:17

that I'd like to say is you

29:22

know,

29:22

when we're going through these

29:22

things,

29:24

I know for me, I'd look around

29:24

and I'd see other people that

29:28

were interacting

29:29

and social and working and all

29:29

this kind of stuff.

29:31

And I I felt like I mean,

29:36

I was hiding it, I was

29:36

pretending to be okay,

29:38

I was hiding. but

29:44

You know, I I think I felt like

29:44

I was all alone.

29:48

I didn't I I didn't know anybody

29:48

else that was going through any

29:53

of these things.

29:55

And so I I I felt like I was all

29:55

alone.

29:58

and I felt like I was,

30:01

you know, obviously something

30:01

was wrong with me and because

30:04

I'd see other people

30:05

Yeah.

30:05

and they were okay and I I

30:05

wouldn't I'd I I couldn't figure

30:09

out how c

30:10

Yeah.

30:10

how they could be so okay and I

30:10

could be so broken.

30:15

Yeah, and that's tough. I

30:15

believe that there's so many

30:19

people out there that

30:20

are hiding things like this that

30:20

we just have no idea about.

30:24

But I didn't figure that out

30:24

until I started talking to

30:28

people.

30:30

Yeah. and I can I can f I c

30:36

I call us fellow travelers,

30:36

other people with mental health

30:39

challenges,

30:40

you know, we're fellow travelers

30:40

and we can see it in each

30:43

other's eyes.

30:43

So when when we connect with

30:43

somebody else that's going

30:49

through

30:50

similar things or has gone

30:50

through similar things and we

30:53

can talk and

30:53

we can open up. but otherwise,

30:57

you know

30:58

I spend all my time pretending

30:58

to be okay and and hiding.

31:02

so you know,

31:07

there's so many other people

31:07

that are going through these

31:10

things.

31:11

And I work in the mental health

31:11

field now.

31:12

I I do peer support and I run a

31:12

small mental health nonprofit

31:17

working with people

31:18

and there's so many people that

31:18

are going through mental health

31:21

challenges.

31:22

And there's so many similar

31:22

stories about people

31:29

you know, feeling like they're

31:29

all alone,

31:31

you know, suffering in silence.

31:37

Yeah, so that that's for sure.

31:38

I have come to the conclusion

31:38

that everybody has a story.

31:44

Whether they're telling it or

31:44

not is something different,

31:46

but everybody has a story.

31:48

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's

31:48

you know,

31:52

who do you tell? I you know, I

31:52

couldn't tell anybody.

31:55

I was afraid to tell anybody. I

31:55

I was so broken,

31:58

I I was so embarrassed, I was so

31:58

ashamed,

32:00

I'd you know, I couldn't tell my

32:00

story until finally one day I

32:04

did.

32:04

and that one

32:09

day kind of was maybe, you know,

32:13

it was a huge turning point for

32:13

me because I didn't have to hide

32:17

anymore.

32:17

I didn't have to

32:18

I I but I was okay enough to be

32:18

able to interact.

32:25

I was okay enough to to work.

32:25

you know,

32:28

so I could tell my story. but it

32:28

took a long time to get there.

32:34

Yeah, and was there something

32:34

specific that made you want to

32:38

tell your story?

32:39

Hm. It was interesting. I got

32:39

contacted by the Oregonian

32:45

newspaper,

32:46

the you know, large daily

32:46

newspaper here,

32:49

and they were doing a story, the

32:49

fellow wanted to do a story on

32:53

mental illness,

32:54

and somehow my name came up and

32:54

so

32:59

he contacted me and wanted to

32:59

interview me and

33:05

I I had to

33:07

think a lot about that because

33:07

that meant I'd be coming out and

33:11

be telling

33:12

the world that you know about my

33:12

challenges and my life.

33:16

And so I I talked to my wife and

33:16

asked her if it was okay.

33:22

And I talked to my kids and got

33:22

there okay and finally decided

33:27

that yeah,

33:27

I'd I'd you know, I'd do I'd I'd

33:27

I'd do the story.

33:32

And so

33:32

Okay.

33:35

when I did that, I was

33:35

completely open

33:36

Yeah.

33:37

and honest. Truly open. The only

33:37

way to do it was to be truly

33:40

open and honest about

33:41

Yeah.

33:42

everything and tell my story of

33:42

the good,

33:46

the bad and the ugly. And so I

33:46

did that and I thought I didn't

33:51

I don't know what

33:52

I thought. I thought it was

33:52

gonna be in the newspaper

33:55

somewhere,

33:56

you know, a page or two or

33:56

whatever.

33:57

And it came out on the fourth of

33:57

July.

33:59

No, after that. it was July

33:59

tenth.

34:04

And I was on the front page and

34:04

picture of me on the front page

34:09

and

34:10

it was three pages front page

34:10

plus three more pages on the

34:13

inside.

34:14

So there was no hiding it. I was

34:14

yeah,

34:18

I was out.

34:19

Yeah the

34:20

And I it was

34:21

interesting. I got contacted by

34:21

so many people saying,

34:24

you know, so positive and you

34:24

know,

34:29

thanking me for for talking

34:29

about it and saying that I was

34:33

telling their story

34:35

too and that they they found

34:35

hope

34:39

and strength from me telling my

34:39

story.

34:46

That's that's really cool. And

34:46

those those words from other

34:50

people always mean

34:51

a lot.

34:54

Yeah.

34:54

Yeah,

34:54

it's and just of a a word here

34:54

or a word there,

34:59

a few words, they do mean a lot.

35:00

You know, it it made it so I

35:00

didn't I could

35:05

it was okay that I that I told

35:05

my story.

35:10

It was okay that I shared that.

35:11

but I there were people that

35:11

disappeared from my life after

35:17

they found out,

35:18

you know, after the they found

35:18

out I have bipolar disorder.

35:24

there was a person down at

35:24

Portland State University that

35:29

I'd gotten

35:30

to know a a a teacher,

35:33

a professor, and we'd

35:33

interacted.

35:36

But when they found out I had

35:36

bipolar disorder,

35:40

they'd see me coming and they'd

35:40

just I didn't exist.

35:45

They'd walk by and they wouldn't

35:45

look,

35:46

they wouldn't smile. I knew they

35:46

saw me and whatever.

35:49

Sometimes sometimes they'd cross

35:49

the street.

35:53

So they didn't have to walk by

35:53

me on the sidewalk.

35:55

so I g there was that kind of

35:55

blowback,

35:59

that that you know,

36:02

stigma discrimination, whatever.

36:04

Mm-hmm.

36:05

Yeah, and there's there's so

36:05

many misconceptions about

36:09

bipolar

36:09

or whatever mental health

36:09

challenge somebody's gone

36:12

through.

36:12

This I I've seen a couple and

36:12

it's it just blows

36:18

my mind that the the stigmas

36:18

exist.

36:22

Yeah, it's really strong. And

36:22

you know,

36:24

people they see on the news, you

36:24

know,

36:27

somebody you know, commits a

36:27

crime or whatever and the

36:31

neighbor says they think

36:32

that, you know, they were

36:32

bipolar or whatever and so and

36:36

it's you know,

36:37

I I think

36:40

only two percent of the

36:40

population,

36:43

a little over two percent of the

36:43

population has bipolar disorder.

36:46

and it's just really

36:46

misunderstood and you know,

36:52

we're not dangerous. you know,

36:55

yeah, some people with bipolar

36:55

disorder commit crimes,

36:58

but a lot of people without

36:58

bipolar disorder commit crimes.

37:02

Bipolar disorder doesn't make

37:02

you criminal.

37:04

You know, you can be a criminal

37:04

with bipolar disorder.

37:09

But it's it's not the cause, you

37:09

know.

37:12

It's not the cause.

37:15

Yeah, exactly. So what what

37:15

tools and techniques do you have

37:20

today that help

37:21

you get through the hard times?

37:24

Yeah, I I take my medication

37:24

religiously.

37:28

new medications for mental

37:28

illness

37:33

are boy a huge blessing. And

37:33

they keep me consistent and

37:39

steady.

37:40

If I there was a time when

37:40

Heather and I were on vacation

37:44

and I left

37:45

one of my psych meds in the

37:45

hotel and I was without it and I

37:50

thought

37:51

you know, I I was gonna see the

37:51

doctor in three weeks and I

37:54

thought I c you know,

37:55

I'll just get through it and get

37:55

a r get another prescription

37:59

when I

37:59

go see the doctor. And it wasn't

37:59

more than four days later and I

38:05

was crashing.

38:06

and it was awful.

38:10

It was truly awful. But

38:10

psychmeds today

38:13

are truly you know,

38:17

they're great.

38:18

the new meds, they work well.

38:18

And so I I take

38:20

Okay.

38:20

my meds religiously. I it's

38:20

really important that I get

38:24

enough sleep.

38:24

sleep is so important.

38:26

Okay.

38:28

If I don't get enough sleep, the

38:28

the anxiety builds and the

38:33

stress builds

38:34

and I don't know what it is.

38:34

It's irritability,

38:40

but the bipolar and s lack of

38:40

sleep really,

38:44

really is hurts.

38:48

and

38:48

that's common with folks living

38:48

with mental health challenges.

38:51

sleep is really important. And

38:51

you know,

38:56

I take the dog for a walk, I try

38:56

to stay active.

38:59

and it's interesting,

39:02

I I keep trying, I keep I don't

39:02

one of the things,

39:06

you know, keep by we talked

39:06

about keep keep trying and you

39:09

know,

39:10

one of my things is don't get

39:10

stuck.

39:11

You know, I I d I didn't

39:14

You know, I wasn't gonna let

39:14

myself get stuck in the severe

39:17

depression

39:18

and not being able to get out of

39:18

bed and and still today I I

39:23

don't get stuck.

39:24

I I sit in different places, I

39:24

do little things

39:25

It's not

39:27

that that are different so that

39:27

I don't get stuck

39:30

Yeah.

39:31

and I don't get into a rut. And

39:31

so those things are really

39:34

important as well.

39:36

And I'm I you know, I work, and

39:36

I teach stand up comedy to folks

39:40

with

39:40

I'm gonna try to rip off my

39:40

shell.

39:41

a mental illness.

39:44

I do you know, I had my fourteen

39:44

last years and I'm I'm I'm

39:49

not about to I'm not about

39:50

He's trying to line it up.

39:53

to retire and to quit working,

39:54

you know. I've I've got I've got

39:54

lots to do and it you know,

40:00

pisses me off if if if if I was

40:00

to die soon it would really piss

40:04

me off.

40:05

That's

40:05

Yeah.

40:06

aside from everything else it

40:06

would just piss me off.

40:08

Yeah.

40:09

Yeah. You you found something

40:09

you're passionate about,

40:11

so you want to stay there. Yeah.

40:13

It's

40:13

Yeah, yeah.

40:14

things are good, you know,

40:16

and I I can do a podcast and

40:16

hopefully reach somebody

40:19

Yeah.

40:20

somebody with a mental health

40:20

challenge and let know they're

40:22

not alone.

40:23

that you do come out the other

40:23

side,

40:26

you know, and so make a

40:26

difference in somebody's life.

40:28

you know, that's good stuff.

40:32

That's good stuff.

40:35

You mentioned something there

40:35

that I want to touch base on

40:37

the teaching stand-up comedy to

40:37

people that have mental illness.

40:41

How did you get into that?

40:45

I

40:45

the local NAMI, National

40:45

Alliance on Mental Ill Illness,

40:50

the local affiliate here

40:52

Yeah.

40:53

brought in a in the county

40:53

behavioral health brought in a a

40:58

comic.

40:59

He teaches stand-up comedy to

40:59

folks with mental illness.

41:01

And I took the class and it

41:01

turns out

41:08

I had a knack for writing jokes,

41:10

finding humor in the darkness,

41:11

and helping people.

41:14

And I wrote a bunch of jokes for

41:14

myself and I wrote other

41:18

people's jokes.

41:19

And then after the class was

41:19

over,

41:22

we performed, we had a

41:22

performance and it went well.

41:25

And after the class was over,

41:25

the people in the class wanted

41:28

to keep going,

41:28

so I facilitated the class. And

41:28

then that le led to teaching

41:33

another class

41:34

and another class. And I ended

41:34

up teaching standup comedy to

41:37

folks with mental

41:38

illness.

41:40

And performing in clubs and

41:40

conferences and different

41:44

things.

41:44

So I I like to say I tell my

41:47

No.

41:47

story one joke at a time. The

41:47

people that I teach in the

41:50

classes,

41:50

they tell their story one joke

41:50

at a time.

41:52

And it helps shatter the stigma.

41:55

It's fun. It it's it's you know,

41:58

w

41:58

Okay.

41:59

finding humor in our experiences

41:59

and our darkness and our hard

42:03

times,

42:03

it changes everything. It it it

42:03

reframes our brain.

42:07

I'd hear a song and it would

42:07

trigger my

42:11

remind me of a trauma and I'd go

42:11

back and I'd relive the trauma.

42:14

I have a PTSD attack and when I

42:14

started doing the comedy,

42:19

instead of reliving

42:20

Yeah.

42:21

that experience, I'd I'd have

42:21

that that trigger and I'd think,

42:25

Okay, where can I find the humor

42:25

in that?

42:27

And it changed everything.

42:27

Changed everything.

42:30

Yeah.

42:33

Yeah, it's I I try to use humor

42:33

too to to get through stuff.

42:38

And sometimes my wife tells me I

42:38

joke around too much.

42:41

Yeah, yeah.

42:43

there's this this song that it's

42:43

an old rap song,

42:46

not way old, but it's I guess

42:46

it's older now that I'm starting

42:50

to go old.

42:51

but it the the lyrics said

42:51

something about Soldier Boy,

42:56

like I can't even remember. It

42:56

was a rap song,

42:59

but I changed the words to

42:59

Seizure Boy.

43:01

watch him shake, watch him roll.

43:01

cool. perfect. Yeah.

43:03

And my

43:06

just cause I thought it was

43:06

funny and it helped me like calm

43:09

my nerves when

43:10

I was going through my really

43:10

bad seizures.

43:12

But my my wife was like,

43:16

I don't see the humor in that.

43:17

Like you don't have to witness

43:17

it.

43:18

I was like, I don't witness it,

43:19

but I'm in the body that's doing

43:19

this stuff.

43:23

Yeah.

43:24

I it humor's healing. I mean it

43:24

really is healing and it's it's

43:28

great medicine.

43:29

laughter is the best medicine,

43:31

it's great medicine. So if we

43:31

can you know,

43:34

if we can change how we think

43:34

about our challenges a little

43:37

bit,

43:38

and if we can find some humor in

43:38

it and share that humor,

43:43

you know, and we're not making

43:43

fun of ourselves,

43:46

you know, we're not be mm

43:46

belittling our situation,

43:50

we're not it's

43:52

You know, we're we're we're

43:52

we're you know,

43:55

we're laughing with ourselves

43:55

and we're finding humor in our

43:58

situation

43:59

and it's it's healthy and it

43:59

it's it's really good for our

44:03

brains.

44:05

Yeah. It's do you remember the

44:05

first time that you made a joke

44:09

about something that

44:10

previously caused you pain?

44:13

I

44:14

remember the first joke I I came

44:14

up with that made me think maybe

44:18

I could

44:19

r write a joke that made me

44:19

think I could take this comedy

44:26

class. When when I had my

44:26

breakdown,

44:30

I was and I went into the

44:30

psychiatric unit.

44:36

before I went in I was just the

44:36

anxiety was just overwhelming.

44:40

like I said, I had to hide in

44:40

the bathroom if there was a

44:42

knock on the door

44:43

or if there was a phone call and

44:43

but I went into the psych unit

44:47

and it was safe.

44:48

Nobody could get to me, nobody

44:48

could see me unless I said and

44:51

they were

44:52

on the list and my wife was the

44:52

only one on the list.

44:54

So she was the only one to come

44:54

in and see me,

44:56

so I was safe. And the stress

44:56

lifted

45:01

a little bit and the anxiety

45:01

lifted a little bit,

45:03

so I came up with a joke. and

45:03

the joke is,

45:06

do you know why they keep the

45:06

doors locked to the psychiatric

45:10

unit?

45:10

It's because there's so many

45:10

people trying to get in.

45:16

I know. So that was my joke that

45:16

I came up with.

45:20

And I thought, okay, you know,

45:22

that was so that was early on.

45:25

And then that led me to think

45:25

that I could tell jokes.

45:32

but

45:34

Yeah.

45:35

you know, I've got I've written

45:35

and told lots and lots and lots

45:39

of jokes about

45:40

my mental health challenges and

45:48

It it just it it it changes

45:48

things,

45:51

you know. I I was suicidal for a

45:51

while and and one of the

45:55

favorite jokes that

45:57

I tell, one of the favorite

45:57

jokes from my shows is a suicide

46:00

suicide joke,

46:01

is a gentle suicide joke. My my

46:01

wife loves it as her favorite

46:05

joke,

46:05

but it goes one time when things

46:05

were really,

46:08

really bad, I decided

46:08

But

46:09

to end it all. So I went up into

46:09

the bathroom and I took a bunch

46:12

of pills.

46:13

Afterwards I called my wife for

46:13

help.

46:15

She said there are more pills

46:15

under the sink.

46:19

Yeah. It

46:22

I know. So suicide's not fun

46:22

yeah,

46:26

suicide's not funny, right? You

46:26

can't make

46:28

jokes about suicide, but yeah.

46:29

And you know, w it's not making

46:29

fun of anybody else.

46:33

It's not minimizing anything.

46:33

It's just sharing

46:35

Yeah.

46:36

humor from and all my jokes. All

46:36

my comedy is based in reality.

46:41

It's

46:44

you know, the first part of the

46:44

joke,

46:45

the setup is is the reality, the

46:45

truth of the situation,

46:49

you know, and then the second

46:49

part is the creative part,

46:52

the the punchline that's, you

46:52

know,

46:55

unexpected and surprising and

46:55

that's where the laughs come

46:59

from.

46:59

So

47:01

Yeah, you you make me think of

47:01

there's a comedian named Drew

47:05

Drew Lynch

47:07

and he has a stutter because he

47:07

got hit in the hit with a

47:11

softball or something when

47:12

Mm.

47:13

he was younger. And for some

47:13

reason,

47:16

most of the time when he gets on

47:16

stage that stutter does kind of

47:19

go away.

47:19

But he tells a joke about that

47:19

stutter and it's actually

47:23

really,

47:23

really funny. I can't remember

47:23

it,

47:25

but I remember laughing really

47:25

hard at it.

47:27

Yeah, yeah. And you know, that's

47:27

it's real.

47:30

I mean, when people tell jokes

47:30

about you know,

47:32

things like him telling his joke

47:32

about a stutter,

47:34

it's you know, it's real. And so

47:34

when when there is a good

47:38

punchline,

47:38

when there's a good joke, it's

47:38

really funny,

47:41

you know. and it's not you know,

47:45

so many times like comics, well,

47:49

you know, so many times they'll

47:49

they'll rant or they'll say

47:53

things for applause and

47:56

sometimes the jokes are easy and

47:56

they're not very creative,

48:00

you know, or they'll drop an F

48:00

bomb or or something and to get

48:04

a reaction.

48:05

but telling a joke that's

48:05

creative and that's clever and

48:10

that's intelligent

48:11

and that's funny, I mean that's

48:11

you know,

48:13

that's that's that's really fun.

48:15

I really you know, I really like

48:15

that.

48:17

Yeah. Yeah.

48:17

So I've got

48:19

I've got another I've got a dad

48:19

joke for your kids.

48:22

Let's let's hear it.

48:24

Okay. do you know why you can't

48:24

hear a pterodactyl go to the

48:26

bathroom?

48:27

No.

48:31

Because the P is silent.

48:34

I'm a huge

48:34

Ha ha

48:37

fan of dad jokes.

48:38

There you go. I got

48:40

another one for ya. do you know

48:40

why the farmer crossed the road?

48:43

To get his chicken.

48:47

Yeah, it's

48:50

I know.

48:51

I used to actually some of my

48:51

morning meetings at work one

48:54

place I worked

48:55

at the I would tell dad joke to

48:55

my staff every single morning.

49:00

And if there was a time that I

49:00

skipped,

49:02

they'd be like, Well, where's

49:02

the dad joke?

49:04

I can't go on it

49:04

Yeah.

49:05

today without the dad joke.

49:07

Yeah, yeah. That's great. I

49:07

mean,

49:09

humor in the workplace.

49:09

Yes.

49:10

Humor humor is healing. I've got

49:10

another non-mental health

49:14

related joke that's

49:15

really cute. when when

49:23

my daughter was in first grade,

49:26

she was drawing, and the teacher

49:26

came up behind and looked over

49:29

her shoulder and said, Megan,

49:29

that's interesting.

49:31

What are you drawing? And Megan

49:34

Megan said it's a picture of

49:34

God.

49:36

And the teacher said, But Megan,

49:38

nobody knows what God looks like

49:38

And Megan said,

49:42

They will in a minute.

49:45

Yeah.

49:45

Yeah.

49:49

I love it.

49:50

Yeah. Yeah. So jokes it's

49:50

interesting how you get into the

49:55

mode,

49:56

I get into the mode and you

49:56

start seeing things differently

50:00

and being creative

50:02

and then the jokes just joke you

50:03

Yeah,

50:04

know, the jokes just they just

50:04

come,

50:06

you know.

50:08

It's

50:09

and I never know when it's gonna

50:09

happen.

50:11

I I can sit down and write and I

50:11

can come up with jokes and

50:14

things like that,

50:15

but sometimes they just pop into

50:15

my head and

50:20

You know, like with the

50:20

pterodactyl joke or the farmer

50:24

joke or and

50:24

a bunch of other things. And

50:24

lately I've been coming

50:30

up with edgy cultural jokes that

50:30

I can't tell anybody.

50:34

But they just come they just

50:34

come,

50:37

you know. Yeah, they just come

50:37

to me.

50:40

And it's it's hard not being

50:40

able to tell because one of

50:43

'em's particularly laugh

50:44

out loud funny. But yeah, I

50:44

can't tell it publicly.

50:50

And have you with through your

50:50

teaching stand up company,

50:55

have you ever watched someone d

50:55

discover their confidence again

50:59

through

50:59

yeah. yeah. Yeah, the people I

51:00

teaching them?

51:02

teach it's it's pretty common.

51:04

They once people

51:09

I ha I had a fellow, his name's

51:09

Michael,

51:12

and Michael came to class, his

51:12

mom brought him in and he w

51:15

lived

51:15

a hundred miles away and they

51:15

drove up and but Michael

51:19

whispered,

51:19

he couldn't talk above a

51:19

whisper,

51:21

he wouldn't talk above a

51:21

whisper,

51:22

he just couldn't. And it's been

51:22

going on for years and years and

51:26

years.

51:26

And so Michael came to the class

51:26

and through the class,

51:30

we came up with jokes for

51:30

Michael,

51:33

and they were pretty funny,

51:33

Yeah.

51:34

and then I had Michael go home.

51:37

And go into the bathroom and

51:37

look in the mirror and and yell

51:42

his jokes

51:43

in the mirror. And then I had

51:48

him the next week I had him go

51:48

into the garage and yell at the

51:52

top of his lungs,

51:53

yell his jokes at the top of his

51:53

lungs.

51:55

And by the end of the class, not

51:55

only did he have a bunch of

51:58

really funny jokes,

51:59

but he was talkative and

51:59

outgoing and talking out loud,

52:04

and it just totally changed his

52:04

personality.

52:06

It was it was amazing. It

52:06

totally changed his personality.

52:10

That's that's really cool that

52:10

it helped him come out of his

52:13

shell

52:13

and realize that I can I can do

52:13

this,

52:16

like be this person.

52:18

yeah, and he so he you know, he

52:18

performs open mics and sees

52:24

himself

52:24

as a comic. Yeah. It was just a

52:24

an amazing transformation.

52:28

And I've seen the same

52:28

transformation happen with other

52:32

people.

52:32

I mean, in different stories,

52:32

different ways,

52:34

but you know, Molly was a doctor

52:34

and all she ever wanted to do

52:40

was be

52:40

a doctor and go home to her

52:40

practice medicine in her in her

52:45

hometown

52:46

and being the hometown doctor

52:46

and

52:48

So she went to medical school

52:48

and residency and then she had

52:51

bipolar disorder

52:52

and she got struck down with her

52:52

bipolar disorder.

52:54

So she had she couldn't she

52:54

couldn't be a doctor.

52:57

She had to give up medicine. And

52:57

when she came to class,

52:59

she's her life was shattered

52:59

because she lost everything that

53:04

meant anything

53:05

to her. But through taking the

53:05

class and finding comedy in her

53:09

experiences

53:10

and writing jokes, she

53:17

now she sees herself as a comic.

53:19

She's got a purpose. She's a

53:19

comic and she performs and she

53:23

goes to open mics

53:24

and she performs in shows. and

53:24

so now Molly's a comic and so it

53:29

changed

53:30

her life as well.

53:32

I love it. And I I think you hit

53:32

on a key word right there too

53:36

that is is purpose.

53:37

When somebody finds a purpose it

53:37

changes absolutely everything.

53:44

Yeah, and you can lose it. know,

53:46

I had I mean my work, my job, my

53:46

career,

53:49

my businesses, that was my and

53:49

earning money and building a

53:52

life for the family,

53:53

that was my purpose. And I lost

53:53

all that.

53:55

but I think,

53:59

you know, if somebody's

53:59

listening,

54:00

you know, you do go through it.

54:02

You do if you have acceptance

54:02

without resignation,

54:06

you you do come out the other

54:06

side and you come out.

54:09

And maybe it's not the same

54:09

purpose,

54:11

maybe you're not the same

54:11

person,

54:12

but

54:13

You know, you you you do have

54:13

purpose and you you can lead a

54:17

full life.

54:20

Yes, yes, for sure. If looking

54:20

back and thinking about what you

54:24

went through,

54:25

what do you wish people knew

54:31

about that struggle? Like that

54:31

they I'm trying to think of how

54:35

to word this.

54:41

Yeah, here it was. Here okay,

54:43

I got it now. Sorry. Looking

54:43

back now,

54:44

That's right.

54:45

what

54:45

do you wish people around you

54:45

had understood about what you

54:48

were going through?

54:54

I I think, you know, when I

54:54

think of that question,

54:57

I think of the kids, my kids who

54:57

were eight and ten.

55:01

they weren't old enough to

55:01

understand what was happening.

55:05

And you know, it was hard on

55:05

them.

55:08

It was really hard on them. And

55:11

so I wish you know,

55:16

I just I I I just wish that was

55:16

different.

55:18

Okay.

55:19

You know,

55:19

I wish that somehow they could

55:19

have

55:23

been protected and shielded from

55:23

from the life changes that

55:27

happened

55:31

and from seeing their dad go

55:31

from this active,

55:34

you

55:36

Yeah.

55:36

know, happy, successful person

55:36

to,

55:39

you know, somebody that was

55:39

broken and shattered and could

55:43

barely get out of bed.

55:47

Yeah.

55:49

And that's where,

55:50

you know, with with with with

55:50

everything that's happened,

55:55

I've got a lot of regrets, a lot

55:55

of thoughts,

55:57

a lot of wishes that things were

55:57

different.

55:59

and and I can think about those

55:59

things sometimes,

56:03

but when I think about the kids,

56:05

that's where the tears come, you

56:05

know.

56:11

Yeah, and it's it's I I think

56:11

that anything dealing with this

56:16

topic or not

56:17

i I guess not even this topic,

56:18

but that's where the troubles

56:18

always my troubles always go to

56:22

is well what would

56:23

the kids think?

56:24

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I you

56:24

know,

56:28

I know I embarrassed my son,

56:28

from time to time.

56:32

to time to time.

56:36

And I look back at that and I

56:36

still haven't been able to talk

56:42

to him about some of those

56:42

things.

56:44

Which is interesting. I mean I

56:44

need to I I don't know,

56:49

I don't

56:51

I don't wanna do it because, you

56:51

know,

56:53

I need to do it. I I wanna do it

56:53

when it comes up organically or

56:58

when we're talking,

56:59

'cause I don't wanna, you know,

57:02

dump on him, you know, do a do a

57:02

you know,

57:06

unload my s my stuff onto him.

57:10

I want it to be a positive, you

57:10

know,

57:12

productive conversation or

57:12

organic conversation that we

57:16

have.

57:18

Yeah, of course. so speaking in

57:18

terms of families,

57:24

what can families do better when

57:24

someone they love is struggling

57:28

with bipolar

57:29

depression or severe anxiety?

57:33

I

57:33

I think acceptance and

57:33

understanding that it's not a

57:37

moral failing.

57:38

you c you can't will somebody

57:38

out of it,

57:45

you can't I don't know,

57:48

badger, I don't know if that's

57:48

the right word.

57:50

Some people I'm sure you can't

57:50

badger somebody out of it,

57:53

you can't shame somebody out of

57:53

it.

57:54

you know, it's organic, it's in

57:54

our brains.

57:58

and we've so you know,

58:02

patience

58:02

and understanding and and being

58:02

an advocate with

58:09

you know Heather was an advocate

58:09

for me with you know the

58:12

psychiatrists

58:13

and getting me to the hospital

58:13

and things like that.

58:15

And so being an advocate and and

58:15

knowing

58:16

And I think that's

58:19

that it's not a permanent

58:19

situation and that,

58:22

you know, that it's it's it's

58:22

it's gonna pass.

58:26

So that you'd you know

58:31

So again, acceptance without

58:31

resignation.

58:33

Don't resign yourself to

58:33

thinking this is always how it's

58:36

gonna be

58:36

and your husband or your your

58:38

Yeah.

58:39

your wife is is always gonna be

58:39

laying in bed,

58:42

barely able to get up. That's

58:42

not how it's gonna and you know,

58:45

it's not how it's always gonna

58:45

be.

58:47

But that's supporting them now

58:47

will help them get better and

58:50

get through this.

58:53

It is always important to have

58:53

somebody in your corner that can

58:57

be

58:57

an advocate for you.

59:00

Yeah, definitely, because when

59:00

we're in our darkness,

59:05

we can't advocate for ourselves.

59:06

We can barely talk, you know.

59:10

We we can barely interact,

59:13

so we can't advocate for

59:13

ourselves.

59:15

And so it's important to have

59:15

somebody that's there to stand

59:19

beside

59:19

us to support us. Heather would

59:19

go in with me as a psychiatrist

59:24

and

59:25

she would tell the psychiatrist

59:25

what she saw and that helped a

59:29

lot.

59:29

Because I didn't know what was

59:29

happening.

59:35

Yeah. And it's I've had the same

59:35

situation where my wife had to

59:38

go in

59:39

and say stuff for me 'cause it's

59:39

like I have a when I get really

59:44

depressed

59:45

I will dissociate. And you know,

59:50

basically my body's there, but

59:50

my mind is somewhere else.

59:53

Yeah. Yep.

59:54

So I was a

59:55

there've been times where I was

59:55

a wander risk,

59:58

I would be found like spending

59:58

money at a store.

1:00:05

I'd walk away from where

1:00:05

wherever we were at.

1:00:08

I actually drove a car an hour

1:00:08

and a half.

1:00:11

I and I don't know how I was

1:00:11

able to drive that car,

1:00:15

but I don't remember doing it.

1:00:16

I had a it was before I was

1:00:16

married and my called my fiancee

1:00:19

and she's like,

1:00:20

You're supposed to be at work

1:00:20

and I said,

1:00:21

No, I'm I'm not supposed to be

1:00:21

at work and she said,

1:00:24

No, you're supposed to be at

1:00:24

work.

1:00:25

She said, Where are you? And I

1:00:25

said,

1:00:28

I'm in a log cabin. And growing

1:00:28

up I lived in a log cabin an

1:00:32

hour and

1:00:33

a half away from where

1:00:34

I was living at the time. And so

1:00:34

I reverted back to going to my

1:00:38

parents' house.

1:00:39

So there was times where she had

1:00:39

to take me and be like,

1:00:43

Nope, this is what's happening.

1:00:45

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:49

and you know, we're both

1:00:49

fortunate we have people in our

1:00:52

lives that are able

1:00:53

to do that, willing to do that

1:00:53

for us.

1:00:55

And and

1:00:56

Yeah, for sure.

1:00:57

aren't aren't just gonna hang up

1:00:57

the phone and or

1:01:01

sit down and pack all your stuff

1:01:01

and put it out on the lawn.

1:01:07

Yeah. So on top of

1:01:11

teaching stand up comedy,

1:01:16

I remember reading in your bio

1:01:16

that you also are an author.

1:01:22

Yeah.

1:01:23

Yeah, I've got two books. the

1:01:23

newest one is called Healing

1:01:28

with Humor,

1:01:29

Mental Illness to Mental Health,

1:01:32

One Laugh, One Joke, One

1:01:32

Inspiring Story at a Time.

1:01:35

And it's about people that have

1:01:35

taken the myself and five other

1:01:39

people that have

1:01:40

taken the class and the

1:01:40

transformation that's happened

1:01:43

in their lives.

1:01:44

And it's it's it's a good book

1:01:44

and you you hear the stories,

1:01:50

Okay.

1:01:51

And Molly's in

1:01:51

there, she's chapter six, and

1:01:51

and so you hear Molly's story.

1:01:54

And but also it's included are

1:01:54

the jokes that they have

1:01:59

Yeah.

1:02:01

come up with from the comedy

1:02:01

class and that they've told on

1:02:04

stage.

1:02:05

And the jokes are are really

1:02:05

funny.

1:02:07

So those jokes are included. So

1:02:07

it's inspiring and it's funny.

1:02:12

and you connect. And

1:02:14

Yeah.

1:02:14

the audio book for for Healing

1:02:14

with Humor,

1:02:17

we were able to splice in.

1:02:20

them performing live on stage.

1:02:22

And so you can hear them telling

1:02:22

their jokes on stage and the

1:02:24

audience reaction.

1:02:25

Okay.

1:02:26

And so the audio book is really

1:02:26

amazing.

1:02:28

and then the other book is OMG

1:02:28

That's Me,

1:02:32

Bipolar Disorder, Depression,

1:02:32

Anxiety,

1:02:34

Panic Attacks and

1:02:34

Yeah, very possible.

1:02:35

More. And that's the one that's

1:02:35

been a bestseller for on Amazon

1:02:39

in

1:02:39

the mental health category for

1:02:39

for nine years.

1:02:43

I wrote about I wrote I wrote

1:02:43

about what it was like to

1:02:50

be in bed and not being able to

1:02:50

get up or have constant

1:02:54

conversations in

1:02:55

my head and not being able to

1:02:55

get out of my head.

1:02:58

And so I wrote these and people

1:02:58

read and they say,

1:03:03

MG, that's me, you're telling my

1:03:03

story.

1:03:05

and it's real and it's got over

1:03:05

seven hundred

1:03:10

Yeah.

1:03:11

five star reviews on on Amazon.

1:03:14

So if somebody's living with a

1:03:14

mental health challenge and they

1:03:18

want

1:03:18

to realize they're not alone,

1:03:21

O G that's me is the book for

1:03:21

them.

1:03:23

Or if they're a family member

1:03:23

and they wanna know what y what

1:03:26

their family member's

1:03:27

really going through, really

1:03:27

feeling,

1:03:29

that's the book because it it

1:03:29

it's what is really happening

1:03:34

with someone with

1:03:35

a mental health challenge,

1:03:35

what's really going on on a

1:03:38

daily basis.

1:03:39

it's about hiding in the

1:03:39

shadows,

1:03:41

it's about you know, and and

1:03:41

their stories so that you read

1:03:45

this story,

1:03:46

a short story, and it's

1:03:49

You really understand what's

1:03:49

happening with your loved one.

1:03:51

And people buy it and give it to

1:03:51

their therapists or

1:03:55

psychiatrists

1:03:56

so that the psychiatrists,

1:03:56

therapists understand what

1:03:58

they're going through.

1:04:01

Mm, I love it. And it's I I love

1:04:01

that the you have these books

1:04:06

that sound

1:04:06

so vulnerable to. And it's good.

1:04:08

Yeah. Yeah, and that all started

1:04:08

with that

1:04:12

Oregonian article and and and

1:04:12

since then I haven't been able

1:04:17

to hide.

1:04:17

So it's been just completely

1:04:17

open and honest and telling my

1:04:22

story ever since.

1:04:24

so yeah,

1:04:28

it's that's the only way it

1:04:28

works.

1:04:31

It's the only way it works. If

1:04:31

if otherwise I'm pretending and

1:04:35

you

1:04:35

can tell I'm pretending and

1:04:37

doesn't work and I can't preach

1:04:37

to people.

1:04:39

I can't I can't tell people what

1:04:39

they should do,

1:04:44

what they shouldn't do. That's

1:04:44

not that's not me.

1:04:46

All I can do is talk about my

1:04:46

experiences and be completely

1:04:51

open and honest.

1:04:52

And other people then realize

1:04:52

that,

1:04:56

you know, they're not alone,

1:04:56

that that they're not the only

1:04:59

ones going through this.

1:05:00

And there is hope and you do

1:05:00

come out the other side.

1:05:06

Yeah, absolutely love it. So I

1:05:06

have like two more questions

1:05:10

here for you.

1:05:10

For the person listening right

1:05:10

now who feels like mental

1:05:14

illness

1:05:15

has taken control of their life,

1:05:16

what would you want them to

1:05:16

know?

1:05:22

That they're not alone and that

1:05:22

it's not permanent,

1:05:25

that you will get through this

1:05:25

and you will come out the other

1:05:30

side

1:05:31

and you'll come out stronger.

1:05:31

and people

1:05:37

who live with mental illness and

1:05:37

go through the challenges are

1:05:40

some

1:05:40

of the bravest and the strongest

1:05:40

people that that I know.

1:05:44

they face these things and live

1:05:44

with these things and they come

1:05:48

out

1:05:48

the other side and they're

1:05:48

really brave and they're strong.

1:05:51

And so you come out the other

1:05:51

side and you are brave and you

1:05:54

are stronger.

1:05:54

So so understand that. And also,

1:05:59

you know, suicidal ideation is

1:05:59

is common.

1:06:03

I had it. most people with

1:06:03

bipolar disorder have it.

1:06:07

A lot of people with depression

1:06:07

have it.

1:06:09

We don't act on it, but we have

1:06:09

the suicidal ideation.

1:06:13

But if somebody's thinking along

1:06:13

those lines,

1:06:16

suicide is a permanent solution

1:06:16

to a temporary problem.

1:06:21

because what's happening right

1:06:21

now is temporary and you do come

1:06:24

out the other side.

1:06:25

And so, you know,

1:06:28

and and suicide hotline is nine

1:06:28

eight eight.

1:06:31

So if anybody's having suicide

1:06:31

alleviations,

1:06:33

just pick up the phone, call

1:06:33

nine eight eight,

1:06:35

talk it out, and don't be afraid

1:06:35

to talk about suicide.

1:06:40

The more we talk about it, the

1:06:40

more we get it out,

1:06:42

the more we look at it inside

1:06:42

out,

1:06:44

upside down, all around, the

1:06:44

less scary it is and the less of

1:06:48

an option it becomes.

1:06:51

Very well said. And last

1:06:51

question here and then just some

1:06:55

follow ups.

1:06:56

If you could if you could sit

1:06:56

beside the virgin of yourself

1:07:00

who

1:07:00

is struggling for those fourteen

1:07:00

years,

1:07:03

what would you tell him?

1:07:06

Wow.

1:07:11

I'd

1:07:11

tell him that what you've lost

1:07:11

was wonderful

1:07:16

and exciting and fun and

1:07:16

purposeful.

1:07:20

But what you're going through is

1:07:20

going to lead

1:07:24

to something important and

1:07:24

purposeful and is going

1:07:30

to give you the compassion and

1:07:30

the understanding that you need

1:07:34

to be able

1:07:35

to help other people. I've been

1:07:35

asked what what would I

1:07:40

you know, would I go back? What

1:07:40

would what would you know,

1:07:43

would I go back if if I could

1:07:43

not have gone through this?

1:07:49

And and my response was, you

1:07:49

know,

1:07:52

I wish that I I wouldn't wish

1:07:52

what I went through on anybody.

1:07:57

and I wish I hadn't gone through

1:07:57

it and it wouldn't have happened

1:08:01

at the same time.

1:08:05

I am stronger and I do have

1:08:05

compassion and it put me in a

1:08:08

position

1:08:09

to work with people with mental

1:08:09

illness and to teach the stand

1:08:13

up comedy

1:08:13

and to shatter stigma.

1:08:16

so I I

1:08:23

You know, and and that's really

1:08:23

important.

1:08:24

So, you know,

1:08:28

there is gonna be a purpose,

1:08:28

there is gonna be success,

1:08:31

just a different kind of

1:08:31

success.

1:08:35

Yeah. I love it. And I I feel

1:08:35

the same way.

1:08:38

If I could go back, I don't know

1:08:38

if I would necessarily change

1:08:41

that much because

1:08:42

it's leading me to things that

1:08:42

I'm doing now that I probably

1:08:45

wouldn't have never

1:08:46

done. I don't think I'd be doing

1:08:46

this podcast if I didn't go

1:08:49

through what

1:08:50

I went through.

1:08:52

for sure. And you know, you're

1:08:52

making a difference.

1:08:55

you know, this podcast, you're

1:08:55

making a difference in people's

1:08:58

lives.

1:08:59

You're talking about things that

1:08:59

are important.

1:09:00

you know, and and you're good at

1:09:00

it,

1:09:04

you know. I've been on a lot of

1:09:04

podcasts recently and you know,

1:09:08

you're you don't dominate the

1:09:08

conversation,

1:09:12

you're not trying to prove a

1:09:12

point,

1:09:13

you're not you know, you don't

1:09:13

have an agenda,

1:09:16

you're just interested and that

1:09:16

helped.

1:09:20

You know, that helps me tell my

1:09:20

story,

1:09:22

that helps get the word out to

1:09:22

other people what's going on and

1:09:26

you know,

1:09:27

so you're good at what you're

1:09:27

doing and you're making a

1:09:28

difference.

1:09:30

Thank you. Thank you for the the

1:09:30

kind words.

1:09:32

I appreciate it. It's it's I'm

1:09:32

here for for your story.

1:09:37

That's what I want to hear.

1:09:37

That's really all it is.

1:09:40

And so where where can people

1:09:40

find you?

1:09:47

Dave Mowry.com. So it's Dave M O

1:09:47

W R Y dot com.

1:09:52

And

1:09:57

there's information about me,

1:09:57

they can contact me through

1:10:01

that.

1:10:01

the books are available on

1:10:01

Amazon and

1:10:06

so Amazon dot com for the books

1:10:06

and there are links on the

1:10:12

website,

1:10:13

Dave Mowry dot com for the

1:10:13

books.

1:10:14

So you can you can access them

1:10:14

either way.

1:10:17

and the audio book of Healing

1:10:17

with Humor

1:10:23

is special and it's really good.

1:10:25

So if

1:10:26

somebody wants to be inspired,

1:10:30

wants to get some laughs, wants

1:10:30

to sh help shatter the stigma

1:10:33

associated with mental

1:10:34

illness, pick up the audio book

1:10:34

for healing with humor.

1:10:40

Thank you. And we covered a lot

1:10:40

of ground in our discussion

1:10:45

tonight.

1:10:45

Is there anything that you'd

1:10:45

like to bring up that we did

1:10:48

not?

1:10:51

No, I think I think you like you

1:10:51

said we covered a lot of ground.

1:10:54

I can't think of anything that's

1:10:54

that's pressing that that I need

1:11:00

to add to to our conversation.

1:11:03

Perfect. Well, Dave, thank you

1:11:03

so much for coming on.

1:11:06

I admire what you're doing. I

1:11:06

admire that you're out there

1:11:09

helping people with

1:11:10

mental illness, that you're

1:11:10

being vulnerable and sharing

1:11:14

your story,

1:11:14

that you're just pushing through

1:11:14

the challenges that you face.

1:11:20

Well, thanks so much, Travis.

1:11:20

Thanks for having me.

1:11:23

I I appreciate that.

1:11:25

And thank you to all that are

1:11:25

listening.

1:11:27

If this story resonated with

1:11:27

you,

1:11:29

please give us a follow and

1:11:29

leave us that five star review

1:11:32

on

1:11:32

the podcast platform that you're

1:11:32

listening on.

1:11:34

Thanks again. Until next time.