Choosing Yourself: Breaking Free From Expectations and Rediscovering Joy | Catherine Crestani

0:36

Catherine, why don't you go ahead and tell

0:36

the audience about your journey?

0:40

Well, let's like how far back do we go?

0:45

well, I guess the biggest thing about my

0:45

journey is that it was one

0:49

of learning how to keep choosing myself.

0:52

So I got my first marriage, I got married

0:52

quite young.

0:55

~ I was a ~ overachiever,

0:58

but had to be the straight A student,

1:00

you know, that was that was me,

1:02

you know, and if I didn't get that,

1:04

but I was also very good at

1:04

self-sabotaging.

1:07

So I would be doing really, really well.

1:10

And then I'd walk into an exam and just

1:10

forget everything,

1:12

even though I knew everything.

1:15

So I was very good at sabotaging myself at

1:15

the like the last hurdle.

1:19

So that was something I had to overcome.

1:21

But then in my marriage, I found that,

1:24

you know, I was ticking all the boxes.

1:27

So, you know, I got married, we had built

1:27

the house,

1:30

and then I built my own business.

1:32

Well, in a partnership and also my own

1:32

business.

1:35

And everything from the outside looked

1:35

amazing.

1:38

So my backgrounds as a speech language

1:38

pathologist,

1:41

I was very good at my job. ~ you know,

1:44

very much worked a lot with children and

1:44

their families.

1:47

And also, you know, when I say I was very

1:47

good at my job,

1:52

but also running businesses. So my

1:52

business partnership,

1:55

my business partner and I, we built that

1:55

up to a seven figure business.

1:58

And then with my own company, which I

1:58

built from the ground up,

2:02

ended up being a six figure business.

2:04

So from the outside, everything looked

2:04

amazing.

2:07

And I ticked all those boxes and everyone

2:07

was like,

2:10

wow, your life's amazing. But it really

2:10

wasn't.

2:14

So in my what was happening with my first

2:14

marriage was I was staying longer

2:20

and longer at work to avoid being at home,

2:23

which is why my business was thriving,

2:25

because I was putting all my attention and

2:25

energy there.

2:28

And then

2:30

And then I realized what I was doing and I

2:30

just couldn't stay.

2:32

I was actually numbing myself to be in the

2:32

relationship.

2:35

I was not myself anymore. I'd given up so

2:35

much on myself that I actually didn't know

2:41

who I was. So whilst everyone thinks I had

2:41

this happy marriage and

2:45

it looked all great and ticked on the

2:45

boxes,

2:47

I truly wasn't who I was anymore.

2:49

And someone said to me, You actually just

2:49

stopped laughing one day.

2:52

And you know, from just from us just

2:52

talking,

2:55

I am very much someone that

2:57

was happy to laugh and to share joy and

2:57

that sort of thing as well.

3:01

So from there, when I stepped out of my my

3:01

marriage and made that decision,

3:07

I realized how much of myself I had lost

3:07

and went to rediscovering myself

3:12

and was truly happy. Like people were

3:12

like,

3:14

wow, have you lost weight? And I joke and

3:14

say,

3:17

yeah, I lost 80 kilos.

3:19

~ which is what my h ex-husband weighed,

3:21

which I don't know what that's in

3:21

Imperial.

3:23

But, you know, and then from there what

3:23

happened was then I realized that

3:29

my business partnership wasn't okay

3:29

because I put in so much energy

3:33

and suddenly I actually didn't want to be

3:33

there all the time.

3:35

I wanted a life. ~ so then my business

3:35

partnership started to fall apart.

3:39

But in the meantime, I actually met my

3:39

husband now because I was happy.

3:43

And then again, I had built up my company.

3:47

stepped

3:47

out of my business partnership.

3:48

I call that my nasty divorce. And then I

3:48

still wasn't fulfilled.

3:52

I had everything. You know, I had a house.

3:55

I had, you know, we had the cars.

3:57

We had our our son. We had, you know,

3:59

my life looked great on paper,

4:02

but in the inside, I just never felt

4:02

fulfilled.

4:05

And I just thought the next thing I had to

4:05

do was keep doing the next business goal

4:10

or the next business goal. But what that

4:10

led me to was burnout,

4:13

adrenal fatigue, all those fun things.

4:16

Because I was sacrificing my happiness

4:16

thinking that's what I had

4:20

to do because everyone else was telling me

4:20

this is what your life should look like.

4:25

Yeah, it's like you you follow the norm.

4:27

Well, what society claims is the norm when

4:27

I don't necessarily believe it is,

4:32

but you f end up following in those

4:32

footsteps because that's what you're

4:37

right?

4:39

Yeah. And this is, you know, there's so

4:39

much conditioning that

4:42

we don't actually realize we go through,

4:43

right? So we have these are the

4:43

expectations.

4:46

This is how your life should like,

4:47

you know, you might finish finish school

4:47

and then go to college or university.

4:51

And then, you know, you go your career and

4:51

you've got to get your career.

4:54

hang on, you're a female. All right.

4:56

You've got to have children in there

4:56

somewhere too.

4:59

and make sure it's before you're 30

4:59

because you know,

5:01

otherwise your eggs are gonna dry up and

5:01

you're gonna be this old mom

5:03

and you can't have children. You know,

5:05

and you haven't got the perfect partner

5:05

yet.

5:08

hang on, this is what the partner should

5:08

look like in your life.

5:10

and and you you need two car you need at

5:10

least two cars,

5:14

there's two of you, you know. So there's

5:14

all these things that just keep coming in.

5:18

And I know there's cultural beliefs that

5:18

come in as well.

5:20

~ you know, and

5:22

It just makes it really hard to f hear you

5:22

sometimes amongst all that noise.

5:27

I call it noise because it is noise.

5:29

Mm-hmm.

5:29

It's

5:29

just everyone else's opinion of how your

5:29

life should look like.

5:33

But the only person's opinion that should

5:33

matter is yours.

5:37

Yeah, yeah, that's that's what I tell

5:37

everybody about like naming children.

5:41

When it comes to naming your children,

5:43

it doesn't matter anybody else's

5:43

preference.

5:45

It's it's your child in the end.

5:48

Having worked, however, in saying that

5:48

Travis,

5:51

having worked with with a lot of children

5:51

over the years,

5:55

I can't even tell you how many thousands

5:55

of children,

5:57

please just spell their name in a logical

5:57

way.

6:02

I I I feel like we have a problem with

6:02

that in where I where I live.

6:07

It's

6:07

~

6:08

So it got to a point where I'm like,

6:10

okay, so it's Michael. So M-I-C-H-A-E-L,

6:13

right? That's typical Michael.

6:15

Mm-hmm.

6:15

no, it's A I K E L. I'm like,

6:18

~ okay. You know,

6:22

but yeah.

6:22

So then you're

6:23

then you're playing the guessing game.

6:24

Yeah. Yep, I I've seen that before.

6:25

Yeah. So even the most simplest names I

6:29

just learnt to just ask for the spelling.

6:31

But you know, we we digress. But the

6:33

Yep, yep.

6:33

point is,

6:34

exactly. You name your child what you

6:34

want.

6:36

Like we gave my son a really short name

6:36

because I was I know how hard it

6:40

is for kids to learn to write their names.

6:42

So I was like, no, let's just give him a

6:42

short one.

6:45

Let's just give him a short one.

6:45

So then it's really

6:46

easy. Exactly, exactly. So, you know,

6:49

again, what

6:51

What do you feel you need to do?

6:53

And that's really what I like teach people

6:53

that I'm working with.

6:56

And you know, a lot of the clients that I

6:56

have come into my life,

6:59

even at the moment, they're all going

6:59

through some sort of

7:02

big endings or transitions, whether it's a

7:02

relationship,

7:04

Mm-hmm.

7:05

a career, or whatever it is, because

7:05

they've gotten to a point in life

7:09

and they realize actually, I I don't have

7:09

any joy.

7:13

Like I am in this monotonous routine,

7:16

I get up, I go to work, I come home.

7:18

I go to bed and then I do it five days a

7:18

week,

7:20

six days a week for some people,

7:22

you know, and it's there's no joy there.

7:24

There's no excitement and it's there's no

7:24

passion.

7:27

And when you're not excited about life,

7:29

everything else falls apart too.

7:31

Yeah, for sure. So when you were going

7:31

through all this,

7:34

was there any defining moment where you

7:34

realized you could not keep living this

7:42

~ well, I went on a bit of a spiritual

7:42

journey in all of that too,

7:47

and realized I had like psychic gifts and

7:47

things like that.

7:50

which I kind of always had. I just didn't

7:50

realize that's what it was.

7:54

I'm very big on following my gut instinct.

7:56

I'm very good at making decisions with my

7:56

gut,

7:59

~ which is my intuition. So, you know,

8:02

through through that it came to,

8:04

I remember this moment.

8:07

And I had all my staff, like I took them

8:07

for the we went through this beautiful

8:11

Christmas ~ party, like at the end of the

8:11

year.

8:14

And I just remember sitting there being so

8:14

grateful because I had,

8:18

I think, eight or nine staff working for

8:18

me.

8:20

Like it was a really just beautiful

8:20

moment.

8:23

I'm like, wow, you know, like,

8:25

you know, I wonder what's next.

8:26

Like this is so exciting. But then I was

8:26

ignoring all the facts that

8:31

I wasn't happy anywhere else, you know,

8:33

because I so much of my energy again was

8:33

going to the business.

8:37

And then when I started going through my

8:37

spiritual journey,

8:39

my husband actually said to me,

8:41

You're not actually happy running the

8:41

business.

8:43

Why don't you just sell it? And I'm like,

8:45

no, it's my baby. You know, I made it from

8:45

the ground up.

8:48

Where are we gonna get money coming from?

8:50

And where's the income gonna be?

8:51

And, you know, X, Y, and Z, you know,

8:53

all the reasons why I can't possibly sell

8:53

it.

8:56

You know, I just, you know what,

8:57

I'm just gonna manage it. That's my plan.

8:59

I'm gonna manage it. And, you know,

9:01

then I can step back and have a bit more

9:01

of a life.

9:03

Anyway, so then part of my

9:06

A spiritual kind of entry point was my

9:06

company actually fell apart.

9:10

So in the space of three months,

9:15

at the start of each month, I had three

9:15

staff resign in a week.

9:18

Completely different reasons. ~ so the

9:18

first time I was incredibly broken,

9:25

I want to say. I was on the floor in a

9:25

ball crying because I knew I had

9:29

to start to reclaim my health because my

9:29

health wasn't okay.

9:32

I knew I wanted to be home at war with my

9:32

family.

9:35

And

9:35

all of a sudden I have three staff

9:35

resigned in a week.

9:37

And how am I gonna possibly find new staff

9:37

to replace them?

9:42

But also I'm gonna have to pick up the

9:42

shortfall because that's always what

9:46

happened. It was always came back to me.

9:47

So then a month later, in the space of a

9:47

week,

9:50

another three staff resigned. So different

9:50

reasons again.

9:54

And then I got really angry and I was just

9:54

really,

9:58

really angry. And then a month later,

10:00

in the space of a week.

10:01

another three staff resigned. Meanwhile,

10:03

I still haven't replaced the first ones.

10:05

Okay, just keep this in mind. And I went,

10:08

you know what? I'm done. You know,

10:11

either I'm selling this company or when

10:11

the lease is up for out where we're

10:15

I'm just signing it off and I'm done.

10:17

And and I'm shutting the doors.

10:19

And these people that are leaving,

10:21

they're not meant to be in my life anymore

10:21

and I'm done.

10:23

And it was this huge weight, Travis,

10:26

that just lifted off me. And

10:29

I did end up selling my company,

10:31

which was amazing. And then I kept working

10:31

there and then realizing this definitely

10:35

isn't the career I want to be doing,

10:36

even without the business pressure.

10:38

You know, but at the same time,

10:40

it was that moment that I went,

10:42

you know what, this isn't right.

10:44

So then even my husband and I sat down,

10:46

we're like, right, we don't have as much

10:46

income coming in.

10:49

What do we actually want our life to look

10:49

like?

10:51

Do we want to keep busting our backsides

10:51

off to pay this mortgage

10:56

and everything else? Or are we going to

10:58

change it. So we sold a car. We have we're

10:58

a one-car family.

11:01

We make it work. You know, we ~ we're

11:03

Mm-hmm.

11:04

selling our house. You know, all these

11:04

sorts of things we're redefining what

11:08

our life will look like. And we don't know

11:08

where we're going next.

11:11

Someone was asking me that today and I

11:11

said,

11:14

I don't know. I said, I think we'll end up

11:14

at my dad's temporarily.

11:18

Then we might build a tiny home and live

11:18

on their farm.

11:21

I don't know. I said, but that's the whole

11:21

point.

11:24

I'm actually just excited to have those

11:24

options.

11:27

And be able to create our life with what

11:27

aligns for us rather than what everyone

11:33

else has told us our life should look

11:33

like.

11:35

And it was, I think a couple of years ago,

11:38

someone said to us, like, ~ you know,

11:40

it must be such an anchor having a house

11:40

and a mortgage.

11:44

And I went, ~ my God, it is. Because I

11:44

love traveling and I love going

11:49

to new places. But when you're always

11:49

worrying about

11:52

Okay, am I gonna have enough income coming

11:52

in to pay like the mortgage while

11:56

I'm not working? You know, X Wine says so

11:56

I can go explore,

11:59

then it c takes away from the the magic of

11:59

that too.

12:05

Yeah, for sure. And I actually love that

12:05

you guys are willing

12:09

to make those sacrifices needed to protect

12:09

yourselves,

12:13

to to make yourselves happier.

12:16

Well, I don't even know if it's a

12:16

sacrifice,

12:18

Travis, because it's like, yeah,

12:19

I don't actually need that in my life.

12:21

Just let it go. You know, so it's you

12:21

know,

12:22

Yeah. So in the end if if it's that looked

12:22

that

12:23

and

12:26

way it is a a sacrifice, yeah.

12:28

Well,

12:29

that's like my dad was like, What are you

12:29

gonna do with all your furniture?

12:32

You know, are you gonna put it in a

12:32

storage unit?

12:34

I was like, Well, I don't know.

12:35

I don't know if we're gonna end up in a

12:35

tiny home because then we'll sell

12:38

all our furniture, or are we gonna,

12:39

you know, are we gonna go in a house

12:39

because then we'll keep our furniture?

12:43

And then I was like, I actually don't

12:43

care.

12:45

If someone came in and went, we want to

12:45

keep all the furniture in the house,

12:48

we'll offer you some extra money for all

12:48

the furniture,

12:50

I'd be Yeah, sure, no worries.

12:52

Because you become so detached from it,

12:55

you know, because

12:56

Home is where your heart is, you know,

12:58

and and following what feels right for

12:58

you.

13:00

I still feel like as much as I want to be

13:00

a gypsy lifestyle,

13:04

you know, part of me still

13:05

Hey.

13:06

needs a base. It still needs somewhere

13:06

that I can say,

13:09

this is where I, you know, come home and

13:09

reset and recharge and then I can go

13:14

You know, but what that looks like,

13:15

why not let yourself be open to that?

13:18

You don't have to have a massive home.

13:20

You don't have to have, you know,

13:22

like, you know, the pool and everything if

13:22

you don't want that.

13:25

You know, it's just whatever it looks like

13:25

to you and feels right.

13:29

I agree. And I think it's great.

13:32

I like so absolutely love that this

13:32

mindset that you have.

13:37

And sometimes it's it's

13:38

Thank you.

13:39

sad that it takes such rough times to

13:39

figure it out.

13:43

But it's like without those rough times,

13:46

you don't know if you'd be in the same

13:46

spot you were today.

13:50

Well, it's like that whole thing you have

13:50

to go through the lows

13:54

to really appreciate the highs because

13:54

otherwise

13:55

Two.

13:58

life would always be like this.

13:59

And that's not why we signed up to be

13:59

here.

14:01

You know, this is not why we're here.

14:03

Yep. We we were never yeah,

14:05

we were never guaranteed that it was gonna

14:05

be an easy roller coaster ride.

14:09

It's ha for sure has its ups and downs.

14:10

Yeah. Exactly.

14:12

So

14:14

during this what I'd call your rough

14:14

patch,

14:19

what was the hardest truth you had to face

14:19

about yourself?

14:26

That I can't do everything myself.

14:29

because I was determined to be the martyr,

14:33

the the sacrificial lamb, you know,

14:36

I would I would make I would come in and

14:36

ride and fix everything,

14:39

but you're we're not we're not operating

14:39

we're not meant to work that way.

14:44

You know, we're meant to find people that

14:44

around us that we can trust

14:47

and get that support on a really beautiful

14:47

level.

14:50

And, you know, for me,

14:52

Even knowing what I know about me now,

14:54

I work better in collaborations.

14:57

I work better having conversations.

14:59

I work better with other people.

15:01

And I was shutting that part of myself.

15:03

So, you know, definitely learning that

15:03

lesson that it's I have more

15:08

fun collaborating, you know, but also I

15:11

Mm-hmm.

15:11

don't have to do everything myself.

15:13

I don't have to be IT and admin and you

15:13

know,

15:17

a sp therapist and this and this and this

15:17

and a mentor and this and this,

15:21

you know.

15:21

Whatever the titles are, I can actually

15:21

delegate that.

15:25

And if I built that business again,

15:27

it would look so different now.

15:30

It wouldn't have me as the center.

15:32

It would just have me making it work for

15:32

me.

15:36

Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy the the lessons

15:36

learned that really come into mind after

15:43

the fact.

15:46

Well, that's why we go through them

15:46

because if we knew the lesson

15:48

Mm-hmm.

15:49

we had to learn while we were going

15:49

through it,

15:51

we would probably run away from the lesson

15:51

we had to learn.

15:54

Y ~

15:55

I I can't even say how many times I would

15:55

have run away.

15:58

It's you know, everybody wants to either

15:58

have fight or flight mode.

16:05

I've always taken the flight path.

16:07

I'll I'll run away from my problems for

16:07

sure.

16:10

I fight. ~ I fight even when I shouldn't

16:10

be fighting.

16:15

It's like actually, would

16:16

it just been easier if I just left it

16:16

alone and walked the other way?

16:19

And it's so funny because sometimes now

16:19

there'll be certain conversations

16:23

and and I I feel myself getting sucked

16:23

into them.

16:26

And then I get this intuitive moment,

16:28

do not engage. I'm like, okay,

16:31

I won't. ~

16:32

I'm

16:32

backing away. I'm backing away.

16:34

Exactly,

16:35

exactly.

16:38

W why do you think that so many high

16:38

functioning people though

16:43

~ miss the signs the warning signs of

16:43

burnout?

16:50

Because we get so fixated on what we're

16:50

supposed to be doing that we forget

16:54

to feel into what we're doing.

16:56

So it's like we're we and we've come from

16:56

this culture of push,

17:01

push, push, push, push, right?

17:02

Okay, I'm just gonna push myself to the

17:02

next goal,

17:05

push myself to the next goal, and push

17:05

myself to the next goal.

17:07

You can't keep doing that. And especially

17:07

if you're not enjoying it.

17:11

Now, don't get me wrong, if you love what

17:11

you do,

17:14

if you're so excited, you like jump up in

17:14

the morning,

17:17

can't wait to start your day, you don't

17:17

get that.

17:20

You don't get the burnout because you're

17:20

passionate about what you're doing

17:23

and you know, like this is why I'm here,

17:25

this is what I want to share. Whereas when

17:25

it's something that doesn't feel

17:29

in alignment with you and you feel like

17:29

you're constantly pushing

17:31

to make things happen, you hit your snooze

17:31

button 20 times,

17:34

whatever it might be, you this is when you

17:34

get you're pushing yourself

17:39

to do something that your body doesn't

17:39

want to do,

17:41

that your mind doesn't want to do,

17:43

that your heart doesn't want to do,

17:44

instead, you're doing it out of

17:44

obligation.

17:46

And this is where it can get to burnout

17:46

because burnout is you're burning

17:50

out your system. You're you're like it's

17:50

like you're,

17:53

you know, if you're driving a car,

17:55

it's like you've got the brake pedal on

17:55

and you're pushing the accelerator

17:58

at the same time. That is why we end up in

17:58

burnout.

18:00

You know, if you are excited to be going

18:00

in that car ride,

18:04

you're not gonna put your head foot on the

18:04

brake pedal.

18:06

You can go. You know, you can go.

18:08

I have to say, as a person guilty of this,

18:11

sometimes I have to remind myself I need

18:11

to have a break and rest now,

18:14

especially if I'm like

18:15

got a project going that I'm really

18:15

excited about,

18:16

Mm-hmm.

18:17

you know, but that's the difference.

18:20

A lot of they've done a lot of research

18:20

and they've found that people

18:23

who have started their own company and

18:23

they're really excited

18:27

and passionate about it, they can do more

18:27

hours and not end up in burnout.

18:31

Versus someone that just steps in and

18:31

something's not in alignment,

18:34

they tend to go in the burnout.

18:35

So for me, my career wasn't in alignment

18:35

with who I was,

18:40

you know, so I was in burnout.

18:42

I

18:43

kept searching for the next thing to fill

18:43

up my cup,

18:45

not realizing I was searching in the

18:45

completely the wrong place.

18:49

You know. So, you know, I just thought,

18:52

if I do this, if I do this, if I do this,

18:54

if I do this, then it will help me.

18:56

And that's where you get into that burnout

18:56

as well.

19:00

Yeah, for sure. And I f I I feel that

19:00

staying stuck in that those moments where

19:07

you're just continuously pushing through,

19:08

it's so horrible on your mental health.

19:13

It is. It is. And it's like even for me,

19:16

like when I so part of the when I sold my

19:16

company,

19:19

the condition was I kept working ~ in in

19:19

the company because it was hard

19:24

to find speech language therapists.

19:26

And I'm like, that's fine, you know.

19:29

And then I kept staying even after that

19:29

term ended.

19:32

And the reason I kept staying was because

19:32

we had a mortgage to pay and we had to,

19:37

you know, pay all our bills and everything

19:37

like that.

19:39

And then what ended up coming out of that.

19:43

was I started to numb myself to go to

19:43

work.

19:47

So I actually literally lost feeling.

19:50

I started losing feeling in my pinky.

19:52

~ it went up through my arm. I went up to

19:52

the point I couldn't feel half my face.

19:57

Now I have an amazing support team of

19:57

Allied Health.

20:00

I ~ well alternative health, I should say,

20:03

not allied health. So I went to the

20:03

chiropractor,

20:05

I went to my biofilm practitioner,

20:07

I went to the homeopath, I went to the

20:07

massage therapist,

20:10

I went to the acupuncturist, and that

20:10

would all

20:12

Fix the problem for two days and then

20:12

we'll come back because

20:16

I wasn't addressing the source.

20:17

The source was I was numbing myself to go

20:17

to work.

20:20

So my body was reflecting that,

20:22

that I was numbing myself to be where I

20:22

didn't feel like I belonged anymore.

20:27

And this is what can happen too when we

20:27

try and convince ourselves that what we're

20:32

doing is good for us. Our body doesn't

20:32

lie,

20:35

it will show up as dis-ease in our body.

20:38

So you can't trick yourself. I knew I was

20:38

going numb.

20:42

sending myself to work. It got to a point

20:42

I actually just quit my job.

20:45

And I and my boss, God love him,

20:48

he's like, is it cause of me? I said,

20:51

no, I'm just not meant to be working here

20:51

anymore.

20:53

He goes, Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't want to

20:53

be in your job anyway.

20:56

So that's what he said to me. And I went,

21:00

Okay, great. Thank you. You know,

21:03

and so this is where you know,

21:06

these these other things kind of come

21:06

from.

21:08

And when we ignore that, you know,

21:10

this is why

21:12

you know, so many people are like pushing

21:12

themselves to keep going

21:15

to jobs even though they know it doesn't

21:15

feel good,

21:18

or they just ignore it and then their body

21:18

starts to show up up problems,

21:22

you know. And I can I I can't tell you how

21:22

many people I've met

21:25

too and they're like, I keep losing my

21:25

voice.

21:27

I'm like, where aren't you speaking up in

21:27

life?

21:29

okay. You know, so our body body keeps the

21:29

score.

21:35

So if you keep trying to convince yourself

21:35

that you're you're doing something even

21:39

though it doesn't feel right,

21:41

And

21:41

you just you're trying to be that

21:41

over-toxic positive mindset.

21:45

I want to say there is a thing as toxic

21:45

positivity,

21:48

you know, then your body's gonna start

21:48

showing up.

21:52

Because no matter how many times I told

21:52

myself,

21:55

I'm doing this for my family, that wasn't

21:55

enough because it wasn't filling

21:59

up my cup, my cup.

22:02

Yeah, yeah, and I can speak up about your

22:02

your body knows it all.

22:09

'Cause I I went through some medical

22:09

problems and until I I mean

22:14

I went through these I ha had seizures for

22:14

years.

22:17

I still have them, but I have them under

22:17

control finally.

22:19

And it was because I f went to a

22:19

functional medicine doctor and they're

22:25

You need to change your diet and I was

22:25

like,

22:28

Hell, if somebody would have told me this

22:28

fifteen years ago

22:33

Instead of just trying to, you know,

22:36

put a band-aid on it, I would have been in

22:36

a completely different space.

22:41

Yeah, and I I feel that's the shift that a

22:41

lot of people are starting

22:44

to gravitate towards too. I don't know if

22:44

it's just a random side sideway segue.

22:49

But you know, we we ~ get so taut to

22:49

you've got a headache,

22:56

take a Tylenol or a panodol, they're

22:56

panodol here,

22:59

you know, and and and numb it.

23:00

You know, don't worry about it.

23:01

Whereas for me, I'm like, I've got a

23:01

headache.

23:04

What is my body trying to tell me?

23:07

You know, I'm like, okay, where

23:07

Mm-hmm.

23:08

where is I where have I literally got a

23:08

pain in my head in my life at the moment?

23:12

You know. ~ or sometimes it might be,

23:14

I haven't drunk enough water. That can be

23:14

that simple.

23:18

Or maybe I haven't had enough salts in my

23:18

b in my thing today,

23:21

which is so counteractive to people

23:21

because we've been conditioned that salt's

23:25

bad for us.

23:26

Mm-hmm.

23:26

But rock salt, mineral salt, Himalayan

23:26

salt,

23:29

Himalayan's got a whole different thing,

23:31

but like Celtic salt and things like that,

23:33

it has more minerals than you can get.

23:36

like through your food, you know,

23:38

so it's like, you know, maybe I need that

23:38

today.

23:41

I don't I choose not to numb my pain.

23:44

I actually start to question what is my

23:44

body trying to tell me?

23:47

And the beauty of t living in this day and

23:47

age,

23:50

Travis, is what is the spiritual meaning

23:50

of a sore right shoulder?

23:55

And it will come up and tell you what's

23:55

going on in your body.

23:58

You know, or what is the spiritual meaning

23:58

of a headache?

24:02

Or, you know ~

24:03

I can list off some just the top of my

24:03

head because I know like if

24:06

you have neck pain, your head and your

24:06

heart are not talking to each other.

24:09

So your heart might be feeling one thing

24:09

and your head's thinking another thing.

24:12

So your head's your neck's in the middle

24:12

going,

24:14

I don't know which way to go. You know,

24:16

so

24:17

Mm-hmm.

24:17

you know, that's where that element can

24:17

come in too.

24:20

But, you know, because we've been

24:20

conditioned to numb ourselves to keep,

24:25

you know, to keep going or to keep going,

24:26

you're like, it's just your mindset.

24:28

No, your mindset is like 20% of it.

24:31

It's just a

24:32

piece of it, yeah.

24:33

Yeah. It's your energy and your body and

24:33

everything else.

24:37

That is where you get the biggest changes

24:37

and shifts in your life when

24:40

you start to listen to what your own

24:40

wisdom in your body is telling you.

24:44

Yeah. And that actually something like

24:44

this just happened to me.

24:48

We came back from a small vacation with my

24:48

family

24:52

and I missed some work days,

24:56

but for some reason I get really anxious

24:56

when I go back to work.

24:58

And so yesterday it caused me to have a

24:58

bad migraine.

25:02

And so I ended up taking an extra day off

25:02

of work,

25:06

but my wife said, You know that this isn't

25:06

just a migraine,

25:10

right? I said, Yes, I know. It's my

25:10

anxiety speaking up.

25:14

I said, but I still feel like I need to

25:14

get the rest in order to calm myself down

25:20

and just take a day for myself.

25:21

And she said, as long as you're aware that

25:21

it's not just a migraine,

25:25

we're on the same page.

25:26

I love your wife. ~

25:30

well, this is this is a fun exercise for

25:30

everyone playing along at home

25:34

and you can do it to Travis. So you can

25:34

write to your body or you

25:38

can write to yourself to ask what's

25:38

happening on a deeper level.

25:41

So I I do a lot of journaling this way.

25:44

So I pretend I'm having a conversation

25:44

with myself.

25:46

I'll be like, and I'm gonna share this

25:46

example from the start of

25:50

the year because it's hilarious.

25:52

So

25:53

I was like, I w I wasn't getting new

25:53

clients at the start of the year.

25:56

And I'm like, you know, we need extra

25:56

money,

25:58

we need cash. Like, where are my clients

25:58

coming from?

26:00

So I wrote to myself, why aren't I getting

26:00

any new clients?

26:04

And I wrote back to myself, I don't want

26:04

any.

26:08

Hehehehehe.

26:11

Because I actually didn't want any.

26:13

It was a reaction to the situation because

26:13

I was like doing my podcast.

26:18

I was tr finishing getting my book out

26:18

because I was about to release my book.

26:23

I had a lot, I was still mumming,

26:25

you know, I had a lot going on.

26:27

The idea of bringing on new clients as

26:27

well,

26:29

that would have just blown my like my mind

26:29

like I would have just felt like

26:33

I was running around like a headless

26:33

chicken.

26:34

So, you know, you can have these

26:34

conversations.

26:38

So it's like

26:38

What is my anxiety about work teaching me?

26:41

You know, why what why am I anxious about

26:41

at work?

26:44

And you just pretend you're talking to

26:44

yourself.

26:47

And when you stop thinking about it and

26:47

you just pretend like you're having

26:51

conversation like we are now, you'll be

26:51

surprised at the things you write

26:55

on the page. And sometimes I look at

26:56

~

26:56

it and I'm like, really? And I'm like,

26:59

yes.

27:01

My my problem is is I know why I'm anxious

27:01

at work and I don't know if

27:05

I wanna face it yet.

27:08

Well, I've learnt too that if you know

27:08

better and you don't do better,

27:13

the universe will create a reaction to

27:13

make you do better.

27:18

So do you wanna be intentionally

27:18

courageous or do you want

27:22

to be accidentally courageous?

27:26

~ that's a good question. Sometimes I

27:26

think I

27:30

I become accidentally incourageous.

27:33

I th I think that's just how my

27:33

Yeah. So the the

27:36

life goes.

27:38

Yeah. And but so the difference is you can

27:38

see what's coming.

27:43

You can understand. Like for me,

27:44

right? I knew my numbness was coming from

27:44

me being at work.

27:47

Now I could just keep writing that out,

27:49

let the numbness get white like get worse.

27:51

And then I get to a point where I'm like,

27:53

I have no choice. I have to quit.

27:55

You know, like there's no choice.

27:56

I can't drive or whatever it would be,

27:58

right? Or

28:00

I can face it head on and go, all right,

28:01

I'm gonna be courageous in this moment and

28:01

just quit and see what happens anyway.

28:04

So you're actually weirdly taking control

28:04

of the situation by getting ahead

28:11

of it because you're choosing not to keep

28:11

burying your head in the sand

28:14

and then instead you're going forward.

28:16

So it's like you can feel yourself being

28:16

backed into a corner.

28:20

Do you quickly make a move to get out so

28:20

you don't even get to that point?

28:24

Or do you wait till you're backed in the

28:24

corner and then punch your way

28:27

out or you know, duck your way or

28:27

whatever?

28:29

You

28:29

know, so it's about, you know,

28:31

just having that courage to back yourself

28:31

really more than anything.

28:36

You know, or

28:38

That's true.

28:39

if you don't know what it is, finding

28:39

someone that can support you

28:43

to reflect back to you what you're

28:43

missing.

28:45

Yeah.

28:48

Yeah, very very well said. And it's

28:48

sometimes I feel that it's

28:55

being willing to take that step into the

28:55

unknown.

28:59

Exactly. And we resist that because it's

28:59

scary.

29:04

Because

29:05

Yes.

29:07

our our mind, our ego, our mind,

29:09

whatever word you want to use,

29:10

wants to keep us safe. So it likes

29:10

familiar,

29:14

it likes routine, it likes those things.

29:16

And when we challenge that and we do

29:16

something that we're definitely jumping

29:21

the unknown, it it challenges that whole

29:21

narrative and it makes us feel

29:26

a little bit unsafe. But and

29:29

And sometimes people choose to stay in the

29:29

situation because it's easier.

29:33

Because it's like, if I if I,

29:36

you know, leave my husband, then I have to

29:36

figure out where I'm gonna have income,

29:40

where I'm gonna live, you know,

29:41

what custody looks like. If I leave that

29:41

job,

29:45

I don't know if I'm gonna get another job.

29:47

You know, what's that gonna look like?

29:49

Even though I'm miserable going to work

29:49

every day,

29:51

you know, and this this career has just

29:51

kind of eaten me up and chewed me back

29:56

So if you get that insight and you know.

29:59

That you're meant to be doing something

29:59

different,

30:01

even when it feels scarier. If you don't

30:01

do it,

30:05

I promise you things will shift.

30:07

I have met people that kept ignoring it

30:07

and kept losing job after job after job,

30:12

not because they were bad at their job.

30:13

They just kept getting made redundant or

30:13

downsized or something else,

30:16

right? Like I actually interviewed this

30:16

person.

30:18

I think he lost his job 28 times through

30:18

redundancy and downsizing.

30:24

And then he finally went, huh?

30:26

Maybe I'm not meant to be doing this job.

30:28

It took him a little while to get the

30:28

message through right.

30:30

Uh-huh.

30:31

Whereas I've met ~ other people and they

30:31

could feel it coming for the third time.

30:35

They're like, you know what? I've actually

30:35

done.

30:37

And they just kind of, you know,

30:39

threw their arms up and just walked away.

30:41

You know, so this is where, and I'm

30:41

talking about careers,

30:44

but then I've also had people in

30:44

relationships where,

30:47

you know, and I sometimes I feel

30:47

relationships are harder than career.

30:51

I don't know why. That's just my my

30:51

personal feeling.

30:54

Because

30:55

Especially when you have kids involved,

30:57

or my example is when you marry somebody,

31:00

you know, when you're exchanging vows,

31:02

you don't project forward and go in five

31:02

years I'm gonna have

31:05

a really messy divorce. You know,

31:07

your your dream

31:08

Mm-hmm.

31:09

is I'm gonna have the happily ever after,

31:12

gonna have kids, you know, we're gonna go

31:12

on holidays or whatever that

31:15

is for you listening. And so when we get

31:15

to that point and that

31:20

relationships broken down to a point that

31:20

you have to step out of it

31:24

and had the courage to do that.

31:26

You know, it wasn't a like decision for me

31:26

to divorce my first husband.

31:30

It wasn't a like decision for me to walk

31:30

away from my business partnership,

31:34

my company. It is big, they're big I say I

31:34

like,

31:37

I'm the person that will let off a bomb in

31:37

my life,

31:39

right? I'm like, okay, I'm just making

31:40

Yeah.

31:41

this decision and I'll catch up with it

31:41

later because

31:43

Yeah.

31:45

because I trust my gut instinct again.

31:47

But at the same time, you know

31:50

When we get stuck in that too,

31:53

and I I talk about this is we we have to

31:53

mourn the dream of what never happened.

31:57

So sometimes we we get so stuck in what we

31:57

think our life should look like

32:03

or what we dreamed that we miss what's

32:03

happening in front of us,

32:07

which then makes us more disconnected than

32:07

ever because we're not actually going,

32:12

actually, my relationship is a disaster.

32:16

I'm, you know, stressed all the time.

32:18

I feel like I can't be myself.

32:20

You know, I'm avoiding going home,

32:22

I'm working longer, whatever that is,

32:24

instead of, ~ but I prom I made this vow

32:24

and we should be married forever.

32:29

But at the same time, you know in your

32:29

heart,

32:32

like I actually need to step out of this

32:32

relationship.

32:35

And you have to, I'm gonna use your title,

32:37

we have to overcome that so that you can,

32:40

you know, step into that next part of you.

32:44

Everyone I talk to, they won't tell you,

32:46

you know.

32:47

making that decision to get a divorce or

32:47

going through custody or whatever was

32:51

but they'll always always say,

32:54

I don't regret it. You know, they they

32:54

don't regret doing that decision

32:58

or they don't regret going through the

32:58

little bit of hard to get to the good.

33:02

Because sometimes we just have to allow

33:02

the old to fall apart so that we

33:07

can get to the other side of that.

33:10

I totally agree. And I do have a question

33:10

along these lines.

33:14

And I think there's one answer to this is

33:14

very obvious.

33:19

And I'll just say it right now,

33:21

it's kids. So now

33:23

yeah.

33:23

I'll ask the question why do people stay

33:23

in relationships when they know it's

33:28

not they're not healthy?

33:31

So, kids as an excuse is just an excuse.

33:34

And I can say this happily because I am a

33:34

mom and I understand that we feel that

33:40

we need to have this stable relationship

33:40

for our children so that they have both

33:44

parents, whatever it is. But if you're in

33:44

a toxic relationship,

33:47

if you're constantly arguing all the time

33:47

or fighting all the time

33:51

or disrespecting each other all the time

33:51

or not even wanting to be in the same

33:55

kids know they feel it, they sense it,

33:58

they hear it.

34:00

they will start to become protectors,

34:02

they will start to want to fix

34:02

relationships.

34:04

And what role model are you showing them

34:04

that that's okay to accept that level

34:09

of love for themselves? And I can promise

34:09

you right now,

34:12

the work that I do with clearing ancestral

34:12

baggage and trauma,

34:16

you know, ~ it is better to step out of

34:16

the relationship and create a passive,

34:22

~ a way that you can be, you know,

34:25

amicable together and and find a way

34:25

around that.

34:29

Than fighting all the time and leaving

34:29

your kids in that toxic environment.

34:33

So kids should not be your excuse.

34:35

They're resilient little things.

34:38

They understand more than what we give

34:38

them benefit for.

34:41

You know, they feel everything.

34:43

They're little emotional radars.

34:44

If if anyone's a teacher's listening,

34:46

if you're having a bad day, the kids know

34:46

as soon as you walk in the room.

34:50

You know, it's like little, like,

34:52

you know, they're like, ~ Miss is having a

34:52

bad day.

34:55

Let's make it worse. You know,

34:56

so ~

34:58

Yes, it can be difficult, but at the same

34:58

time,

35:00

I always think wouldn't you want your kids

35:00

seeing you happy and healthy

35:05

and enjoying life rather than tiptoeing

35:05

around and being a fraction of

35:10

who you you actually are?

35:12

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and kind of going back to

35:12

your kids notice everything.

35:18

~ this was probably a month or two ago.

35:21

I said something to my wife. I can't even

35:21

remember what the conversation was about.

35:25

And my six year old, I didn't think she

35:25

was even listening or paying attention.

35:30

And I what I said, I didn't think she even

35:30

understood the even

35:34

the maybe vaguely a little bit of it.

35:37

And later on she came up to me,

35:39

she said, Dad

35:41

What did you mean by this? I was like,

35:42

~ it just caught me off guard 'cause I

35:42

thought she wasn't listening

35:46

and paying attention, but they are paying

35:46

attention.

35:47

No.

35:49

Even when you think they're not listening,

35:51

they're listening. They feel it,

35:52

they hear it, they take

35:53

Uh-huh.

35:54

it in. Especially I find from the younger

35:54

they are,

35:59

the more sensitive they are. So for

35:59

example,

36:02

~ my little human, when I think when we

36:02

were moving offices,

36:06

before we went into that weekend,

36:08

I knew I was going to be stressed.

36:10

We had three days to move an entire office

36:10

and set up

36:13

New space, right? So, you know,

36:15

so I was like, this is gonna be full on.

36:17

So I sat my little one down and I said to

36:17

him,

36:20

I know I'm gonna be really busy this

36:20

weekend.

36:23

I'm gonna look real I'm gonna be really

36:23

stressed,

36:25

and you're gonna feel that off me,

36:27

but just know it's not to do with you.

36:29

And I promise, you know, at the end of it

36:29

we'll we'll do something special together.

36:34

And and he was so amazing.

36:37

All my staff were like, my goodness,

36:39

like I think he was like four or five at

36:39

the time.

36:41

And my my staff were just like,

36:43

wow, like he's he's been like he's so well

36:43

behaved and he's so happy.

36:48

But if I hadn't had that conversation with

36:48

him to set him up,

36:51

like this is what's gonna happen,

36:53

this is what the feelings I've got,

36:55

know that it's not projected at him,

36:57

he would have been completely different.

36:59

So sometimes, you know, we we're we think

36:59

we're masking our emotions

37:03

and hiding them from our kids when really

37:03

we just need to label them

37:07

and say to them, actually.

37:09

And my son will go, Mom, you seem sad.

37:11

I said, I am sad today. There's a lot

37:11

going on and I'm feeling sad today.

37:15

And that's okay. And so then he knows it's

37:15

okay to feel that way too.

37:20

You know, so this is where they just sense

37:20

more.

37:24

I call them little emotional radios.

37:26

They just tune in and they know.

37:27

But yes, never think

37:28

Mm-hmm.

37:29

that your child's not listening because

37:29

they are.

37:31

They really are. Yeah.

37:33

yes.

37:34

And that's a lesson I've learned many

37:34

times over and over again.

37:40

Yeah. And and just in case you missed it

37:40

the first time,

37:43

our kids are really good at reflecting

37:43

back to us what we don't want to see.

37:45

Mm-hmm.

37:46

Mm-hmm. ~

37:48

Very good. So I I'd I'd love to for you to

37:48

kind of to switch gears here

37:55

and for you to talk about my virtual

37:55

obsess obsession.

38:00

yeah. Well, it's not really super changing

38:00

gears.

38:03

So ~ look, I'll even do my little like

38:03

hold up my book.

38:06

Hello.

38:09

so it's I started writing this book

38:09

because I always wanted to write.

38:15

So this was a passion that was like deep

38:15

buried in me that kind

38:20

of got squashed down. Like at school,

38:22

I used to love creative writing

38:22

assignments,

38:24

especially if I was inspired.

38:26

I'd write the best stories and my teacher

38:26

would always be like,

38:28

Wow, this is amazing. I'm like,

38:29

I was inspired. But then if I was in an

38:29

exam and had to do it,

38:33

I'm like, ~ I have no idea.

38:35

Mm-hmm.

38:36

You know, this is pressure. I don't want

38:36

to do it.

38:38

You know, whereas if I had the space,

38:40

I'd quite happily go into a a beautiful

38:40

story.

38:44

But I forgot about that. You know,

38:46

I forgot about how much I actually liked

38:46

writing and and creating things

38:49

and sharing things. And it was a friend of

38:49

mine,

38:53

he said to me, ~

38:55

I don't know, maybe like five years ago.

38:56

If you could do anything in the world,

38:59

what would it be? And without even

38:59

realizing,

39:01

I said I would write. And I didn't know

39:01

what that would look like.

39:04

So probably about a year and a half ago,

39:08

I had this dream. And it was like a full

39:08

movie.

39:12

Like I watched the the whole thing from

39:12

start to finish the movie.

39:16

And I went and I woke up and I went,

39:18

I need to write this as a book.

39:19

And it was my virtual obsession.

39:21

That's what I watched.

39:22

So I'm like, how am I going to do this?

39:24

Because I was still working, still doing a

39:24

few things at the time.

39:26

So I promised myself I would write for 15

39:26

minutes a day.

39:29

And I did. And I created this novel.

39:32

and then I sent it off to a friend and she

39:32

gave her feedback and to

39:36

how to develop the characters a bit more.

39:38

And then I went, okay, now I need to edit

39:38

it.

39:41

And as I was editing it, I ended up using

39:41

Chat GPT to edit it.

39:45

I want to emphasize chat did not write my

39:45

book,

39:48

chat edited my book. Okay. So,

39:50

you know, ~

39:51

And if anyone's used chat to edit a book,

39:54

you'll understand how painful and long it

39:54

is because it will start really

39:59

beautifully and then halfway through your

39:59

chapter,

40:01

it just does one word answers or one word

40:01

responses.

40:04

And it's like, my gosh, what you cut out

40:04

all the dialogue.

40:07

Who's this person? What happened?

40:08

So you really have to be involved weirdly

40:08

with AI.

40:11

But what happened was when I was sitting

40:11

there,

40:14

I went, okay, well, how do I market this

40:14

book?

40:17

And it went, well, you've actually written

40:17

a psychological thriller that makes

40:20

people reflect on when loneliness becomes

40:20

obsession.

40:23

I went, what? And then ~ and then I

40:23

realized all my clients were going through

40:30

this. So they get stuck in this idea of

40:30

what ~ which we've touched upon

40:35

of what their life should look like,

40:37

that they forget to face the reality of

40:37

what's actually happening in their life,

40:41

or they want to avoid themselves so much

40:41

and the feeling of being lonely.

40:46

That they dive into relationships that we

40:46

would normally say no to.

40:50

So this is what was depicted through this

40:50

whole kind of novel without

40:55

me even realizing it, because I was just

40:55

writing what I saw.

40:59

You know, I was just writing this this

40:59

dream I had.

41:02

And then I realized how much of a

41:02

reflection it is and how easy it is to tip

41:08

So the first part of the book is from

41:08

Clive's perspective,

41:12

who's our our victim, if you will,

41:14

or our our

41:16

you know, the the the person receiving the

41:16

psychological stalking

41:19

and virtual stalking. Anyway, and then ~

41:19

the second part's actually from Anna's

41:24

point of view. And you get to understand

41:24

how you can so easily just trip over from

41:31

light stalking of just looking at people's

41:31

social media or things like that

41:35

to full on stalking to full-on obsession.

41:38

You know, because in her mind she'd

41:38

finally found the perfect man and it

41:44

was he was going to be

41:45

you know, with her no matter what,

41:47

you know. So the length she went to,

41:50

but also the the past that came up to

41:50

block her,

41:54

to say, hang on, are you sure you want to

41:54

do this?

41:56

You know, are you sure you want to do

41:56

this?

41:58

Because we've all been there where we get

41:58

these these red lights and you're like,

42:01

nah, nah, nah, nah, I'm just gonna ignore

42:01

it and keep driving.

42:04

You're like, no, no, no, no, no.

42:05

And and then when you get to the other

42:05

side,

42:07

you're like, why didn't you warm hang on,

42:09

you did warn me. You know, I did have

42:11

Mm-hmm.

42:11

chance

42:12

to get off this train and I and I forgot

42:12

to.

42:14

You know, so anyway, that's how the book

42:14

evolved and it ended up being

42:19

a really fun project that even when I was

42:19

writing it,

42:23

I was like, what did she do? Because

42:23

again,

42:25

I was just trusting what came through.

42:27

Yeah.

42:28

I absolutely love that y in the end you

42:28

realize that there is some

42:33

~ real psychological patterns throughout

42:33

the book that you observed that that's

42:39

Yeah, that clearly my subconscious waved

42:39

in.

42:39

actually really cool. Just yeah.

42:42

Yes.

42:43

Yeah.

42:45

H have there been any conversations that

42:45

have started because of

42:49

the book that surprised you?

42:52

It's funny because a lot of people will

42:52

talk about that read the book

42:56

and they'll say it actually touched upon

42:56

things in my life that made me go,

43:02

oof, maybe I did miss that or maybe I put

43:02

that to the side.

43:06

And a lot of people, because it it makes

43:06

people reflect on as well

43:11

how much information we give away to

43:11

technology and how easily in

43:15

the wrong hands that can be flipped.

43:17

Because, you know, we happily willy nilly.

43:22

put all these things into AI, but it's

43:22

like,

43:23

well, that's going to a data center

43:23

somewhere.

43:26

Who's got

43:26

Uh-huh.

43:27

access to that, right? So it makes you

43:27

start to think about that a

43:32

bit more and start to pull back and go,

43:33

whoa, you know, hang on. You know,

43:35

let's see where where that's actually

43:35

going.

43:37

So and the biggest thing as well is that

43:37

the book reflects Clive ends

43:43

up choosing the simple life. He doesn't

43:43

want to be running this company anymore,

43:47

which he's built up can run itself.

43:49

You know, he just wants to go

43:51

find which he does, ~ not a spoiler alert,

43:54

but he finds his way to making his dreams

43:54

come true,

43:58

you know, with without all the

43:58

expectations of exactly what we talked

44:04

episode of having that checklist of this

44:04

is what my life should look like.

44:07

You know, ~ actually no, this isn't

44:07

working for me.

44:10

I want it to be completely different.

44:11

Yeah.

44:13

Yeah, and you actually mentioned

44:13

technology and it leads into a question

44:18

r about relationships. How has technology

44:18

changed the

44:22

way we experience relationships?

44:27

I feel the impact isn't meeting people.

44:32

Cause I met my husband now. We met on an

44:32

app.

44:35

I don't think that's

44:35

Mm-hmm.

44:36

the problem. I feel the problem is when

44:36

technology interferes with the connection.

44:41

So if you go out to a restaurant and you

44:41

just sit there on your phones,

44:45

what's the point of that? You know,

44:46

like why why aren't you having a

44:46

conversation?

44:49

You know, it it amazes me how many

44:49

families,

44:51

all the members of the families,

44:52

are on their phones. Like it's just ~

44:56

blows my mind, you know, or people I guess

44:56

hiding behind the technology.

45:00

I have clients who, you know, they'll

45:00

they'll start a relationship,

45:04

but they haven't met the person.

45:06

But, you know, they've been talking to

45:06

them and things.

45:08

But then when it comes to meeting,

45:10

they don't want to do that because then I

45:10

guess all their flaws are

45:14

out there and everything like that.

45:15

So there's like this reluctance there too.

45:17

So, and then there's the aspect where

45:17

people are starting to use AI to

45:24

impersonate them I want to say or reply

45:24

for them right so instead of going okay

45:30

I'm gonna reply to this person this way

45:30

I'm gonna put their SMS into into whatever

45:37

and have that ai reply that is losing

45:37

yourself

45:41

to technologies yeah right and this is

45:42

Yes. Yes. And and I have such sorry,

45:46

the problem yeah I was

45:47

you go ahead. I was just gonna say I have

45:49

s no. I'll stop, I'll stop.

45:52

~ Well,

45:55

that's the thing. Like technology is

45:55

there.

45:57

We can embrace it. We can use it.

45:59

We can allow it to help us as a tool.

46:01

But when you start to let it replace you,

46:04

that is where that breakdown happens in

46:04

relationships.

46:07

It doesn't have to be romantic.

46:08

It can be in your career. It can be with

46:08

friends.

46:11

It can be, you know, ~ how you express

46:11

yourself and share yourself.

46:15

Look, I'm not gonna lie, I get I get ~ AI

46:15

to write my Instagram post,

46:20

but I tell it what I want.

46:22

I'm like, here's what I want. Make it make

46:22

this sound nice,

46:26

you know, in my voice. Okay, great.

46:28

Thank you. That's what I would do.

46:29

Actually, no, I don't like that bit.

46:31

I'm just gonna edit that before I post it.

46:33

Right. So again, I'm still in that,

46:36

but I'm not letting it just dictate to me.

46:39

And so and I have played with this where

46:39

I'll be like,

46:41

write a post about this. I'm like,

46:42

God, this is terrible, you know,

46:44

because because again, it's not

46:44

representing of me.

46:48

Whereas when you do it yourself first or

46:48

at least have your bullet points

46:52

or whatever, it allows that. So if you're

46:52

showing up to a relationship

46:56

and you've you've memorized what to say

46:56

based on your your stalking,

47:00

like on technology or whatever it might

47:00

be,

47:02

you think you know that who they are,

47:04

you know, then then how are you going to

47:04

create a connection?

47:07

Because you're already going in with

47:07

assumptions rather than actually being

47:11

genuinely curious and asking questions

47:11

about that person.

47:17

Very well said, you basically stole the

47:17

words right out of my mouth.

47:19

We had the the same exact thought.

47:22

I was just gonna say using it as a tool

47:22

and

47:22

Okay, beautiful.

47:24

because to me, technology is a love hate

47:24

relationship.

47:27

I I think it's cool. I'm a nineties kid,

47:31

so I've seen, you know, we went from no

47:31

cell phones to cell phones

47:35

and I've seen some really cool things

47:35

throughout my life,

47:38

but there's also the downfall of those

47:38

really cool things if you misuse them.

47:43

Exactly. And this is where learning your

47:43

discernment is really important.

47:47

So your discernment, I call it your truth.

47:50

Does this feel right for me or doesn't

47:50

this feel right for me?

47:53

And if it feels right for you,

47:55

then by all means keep doing that.

47:57

If it doesn't feel right for you,

47:58

you don't have to do it. You don't

48:01

Mm-hmm.

48:01

have to. Even if it's on trend,

48:04

you don't have to do it. It's okay.

48:06

You know. Yeah.

48:07

Yeah. Yeah.

48:08

You for sure. And I'm with you on the AI

48:08

stuff,

48:13

I've used it for myself to ma basically as

48:13

a tool

48:18

for myself to work faster and more

48:18

efficiently.

48:22

But I'm right in the middle of it.

48:23

I don't let it post anything without me

48:23

saying how it's supposed to be first.

48:29

Exactly. Exactly.

48:33

It's just crazy, crazy, crazy.

48:36

So if someone feels disconnected from

48:36

themselves today,

48:41

where should they start?

48:46

Come

48:46

back to you, like actually get to know

48:46

yourself again.

48:49

I know it sounds so cliche, but take

48:49

yourself out on a date by yourself,

48:54

not with your kids, not with your partner.

48:56

Actually go spend some time with yourself

48:56

and see what brings you

49:00

joy and trust that. If maybe you want to

49:00

try painting and you're terrible at it,

49:05

it doesn't matter. If you do it with a

49:05

smile on your face and laugh about it,

49:08

who cares? You tried it and you're like,

49:10

okay, this isn't for me, or maybe it is

49:10

for you.

49:12

You know, but creating those moments.

49:15

of coming back to you and having joy every

49:15

day,

49:17

something that makes you excited and

49:17

happy,

49:19

that is so important. ~ and the more that

49:19

you learn that about yourself and do that,

49:25

the more you'll actually become magnetic.

49:28

And what I mean by that is because you're

49:28

turning into your true self,

49:32

you'll start attracting things,

49:35

opportunities, people, ~ all those sorts

49:35

of things into your life that will allow

49:40

you to keep being yourself and show up

49:40

because you're suddenly in alignment.

49:45

And things will just start to flow to you

49:45

and it it truly is magic when it happens.

49:50

I I agree. You somebody said this not too

49:50

long ago on this show

49:55

is in order to truly love somebody you

49:55

need to learn to love yourself.

50:02

A hundred percent. A hundred percent.

50:05

And I feel there's this b I mean,

50:08

this happened with me. There's been a time

50:08

in my life not too long ago where

50:12

I was losing myself because my wife and I

50:12

now have four kids and it gets really hard

50:19

to not lose yourself when you're just

50:19

focusing on other people.

50:23

I'm not saying that focusing on other

50:23

people is not important,

50:26

but you need to get some you time in there

50:26

as well.

50:30

Well, it's that whole analogy,

50:31

fill your own cup up first and let the

50:31

overflow fill everyone else.

50:35

And I promise you, even I well done having

50:35

four kids.

50:38

I'm a one and done parent. you know,

50:41

but ~

50:41

Yeah.

50:43

you know, your kids need you to be full of

50:43

of your energy.

50:49

Your kids need you to be happy and and you

50:49

know,

50:52

actually happy with yourself because they

50:52

need need your energy and time too,

50:57

but

50:58

If you haven't filled up your own cup,

50:59

you're gonna run out a lot quicker.

51:01

And it's so contraintuitive, creating

51:01

extra space for yourself will give

51:05

you more energy and time throughout the

51:05

day.

51:07

It's so weird, but it's true.

51:10

N no, I totally believe it. It's and let's

51:10

see.

51:16

No. Where was my thought going?

51:18

So kind of going back to the technology

51:18

and relationships,

51:24

I I think this question kind of goes a

51:24

little bit with that.

51:30

What does healthy connection actually look

51:30

like in today's world?

51:37

I

51:37

feel it's learning to connect with

51:37

yourself first and know how you show up as

51:41

And then you can connect better with other

51:41

people.

51:44

And then those people are getting you as

51:44

you.

51:47

And then you can actually have heartfelt,

51:50

meaningful connection because you're all

51:50

showing up as yourselves.

51:54

You're not putting these masks or these

51:54

weird dodgy foundations.

51:57

And that allows you to have that better

51:57

connection.

52:01

Whether it is, you know, maybe you ~ cyber

52:01

stalk each other,

52:05

you know, but really.

52:07

Talking, don't underestimate the power of

52:07

having a powerful conversation using your

52:11

words and face to face. Yeah.

52:16

And you know one crazy thing you said face

52:16

to face.

52:19

Well I I think it's like the I don't know

52:19

what generation is struggling with this,

52:24

but it's so I'm a millennial according to

52:24

the generations.

52:30

But the one below me they say is really

52:30

struggling with like the face

52:34

to face conversations because they've

52:34

grown up texting and just using

52:40

all sorts of different social media so

52:40

when they meet somebody face to face

52:45

They're having a hard time doing it.

52:46

And I think that's just a bizarre type of

52:46

thing that we live in.

52:51

That's it. And and you know, that comes to

52:51

create opportunities

52:55

for your children just to go play at the

52:55

park,

52:59

you know, and

52:59

Mm-hmm.

53:00

with strangers. You don't have to have

53:00

play dates all the time.

53:03

Kids will gravitate to other kids and

53:03

figure out a way to play together.

53:06

It's amazing. It truly is. Yeah.

53:07

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's

53:09

really cool. I absolutely love when I see

53:09

my kids go up to somebody

53:12

on the playground and say, Hey,

53:14

do you wanna be my friend? Even if it's

53:14

for that hour and they totally forget

53:19

the person afterwards. It's really cool

53:19

for them to see them make that connection.

53:23

Yeah, definitely.

53:26

So if ~ basically one last question and

53:26

then just a few follow ups.

53:31

If listeners remember just one thing from

53:31

this conversation,

53:35

what would you hope it is?

53:39

It's okay to choose yourself.

53:44

Very well said. It's and it's something

53:44

that's to me has been easier said than

53:52

Yeah. Yeah, agreed.

53:56

But I I think that learning how to choose

53:56

myself over the last 'cause

54:02

it hasn't happened until last like

54:02

probably two or three years.

54:05

But I've learned more in those last two or

54:05

three years about myself than

54:10

I would have ever imagined.

54:14

Especially with four children,

54:15

I understand. ~

54:18

Yes.

54:20

Yes. Well the fourth child he's he's still

54:20

really new,

54:23

so he's actually almost three months old

54:23

now.

54:27

So he still still a big adjustment.

54:34

And where can people find you?

54:36

The best place is probably my website,

54:38

which is willowhealing.org. ~ I'm also on

54:38

Instagram a bit,

54:43

which is Willowhealing sh. And if you want

54:43

to find my book,

54:46

My Virtual Obsession, you can find it on

54:46

Amazon or any ebook reading platform

54:51

really. So yeah.

54:54

Great, and I will add all those to the

54:54

show notes when this goes out.

54:57

And last question here is we have covered

54:57

a lot of ground

55:03

in today's conversation. Is there anything

55:03

that you would like to bring

55:06

up that we did not discuss?

55:11

I feel in summary it's like choose choose

55:11

life your way.

55:16

You have to wake up with yourself every

55:16

day,

55:18

no one else. You know, so be be happy with

55:18

what you see staring back at

55:23

you in the mirror and trust that the more

55:23

you choose yourself,

55:27

the the happier that smile will be.

55:30

Absolutely love it. Well, Catherine,

55:33

thank you so much for spending an hour

55:33

with me.

55:37

I've loved our conversation. I admire the

55:37

work that you're doing.

55:40

And I love that you're going on podcasts

55:40

to share your story and help other people

55:46

out.

55:47

Thank you, Travis. Appreciate and thank

55:47

you for having a conversation with me too.

55:52

Pleasure. And thanks to all those that are

55:52

listening.

55:55

If this story resonated with you,

55:57

please follow us and leave us a five-star

55:57

review.

56:01

Until next time.