Vulnerability Is a Superpower After Suicide Loss | Neal Tricarico

0:00

How do you pick up the pieces of your life

0:00

after losing the son you fought

0:04

so hard to save? Neil Traker lost his

0:04

sixteen year old son,

0:09

Anthony to suicide. Anthony was bright,

0:12

driven, surrounded by friends,

0:13

and seemingly thriving on the outside,

0:15

but underneath he was fighting a battle

0:15

that many people couldn't see.

0:19

And in the aftermath of that unimaginable

0:19

loss,

0:23

Neil discovered something powerful.

0:24

Vulnerability isn't a weakness.

0:27

It might just be our greatest superpower.

0:29

In today's episode of Overcome with Travis

0:29

White,

0:32

Neil shares how he's navigating grief,

0:34

turning pain into purpose, and working to

0:34

ensure that other young people never feel

0:39

alone in their struggles. This isn't a

0:39

conversation about getting over grief.

0:44

It's about learning how to carry it,

0:46

finding connection through vulnerability,

0:49

and discovering that even after everything

0:49

changes,

0:53

life can still hold meaning. Let's get

0:53

into it.

0:59

Neil, why don't you go ahead and share

0:59

your story?

1:02

Well, thanks, Travis. And it's an honor to

1:02

to be here on your podcast.

1:06

And I'm really ~ grateful for your format

1:06

and the conversational nature of it.

1:11

And ~ wow, my story has so many twists and

1:11

turns to it.

1:18

So what I think I'd like to do is really

1:18

look at it in a

1:24

way that I call like the struggle to to

1:24

transformation.

1:28

And I'm hoping that what we're able to

1:28

talk about.

1:31

on this podcast today will really help

1:31

your listeners in the most profound

1:36

way possible. And ~ you know,

1:39

the story I want to share is about a story

1:39

of of of strength and hope

1:44

and resilience and personal growth and

1:44

transformation.

1:49

~ I'm going through something that I've

1:49

come to understand if you've got

1:55

a label it is called post-traumatic

1:55

growth.

1:59

And post-traumatic growth is the

1:59

antithesis of post-traumatic stress

2:06

So if we have trauma in our lives and that

2:06

trauma extends for so long that it's

2:12

chronic, it can become a disorder.

2:14

But what people don't realize is that what

2:14

is also possible amidst trauma,

2:20

if there's somehow some way we can

2:27

Find enough purpose, just enough purpose

2:27

that it's greater than the ex

2:32

the pain that we're experience,

2:34

we're compelled to grow, we're compelled

2:34

to to serve and grow in

2:40

the most amazing ways. And so to do that

2:40

working backwards,

2:44

my my trauma is is pretty significant.

2:48

~ I lost my son Anthony Ant to suicide in

2:48

the spring

2:54

of twenty twenty-four.

2:56

And Ant was a bright, intelligent,

3:00

funny, beloved friend,

3:04

child. ~ you know, this was his junior

3:04

year of high school.

3:08

From all accounts, from the outside world,

3:12

he was thriving. 4.6 grade point average,

3:15

like I said, an abundance of friends.

3:17

~ he loved entrepreneurialism.

3:21

He had a couple different

3:23

jobs that he did. ~ he loved hanging out

3:23

with his friends.

3:26

He also saw the value in physical fitness.

3:29

He went to the gym every morning before

3:29

school and after school he

3:33

was training for something, ~ a martial

3:33

arts competition,

3:37

a ~ you know, a ~ a Spartan race,

3:43

a marathon, what have you. But also what

3:43

was true for Ant is inside

3:49

he was suffering from depression.

3:52

And his struggles were real. And ~ another

3:52

thing that's true

3:58

for Anthony is that at the age of seven,

4:01

he was diagnosed with high functioning

4:01

autism.

4:04

And this is the side of the spectrum which

4:04

used to be called ~ Asperger's.

4:11

So it's not the side of the spectrum with

4:11

non-verbal,

4:15

but it's it's the it's the side that in

4:15

many ways sometimes people don't.

4:20

realize or notice somebody could be quirky

4:20

or maybe appear more intellectual

4:26

or what have you. ~ but a lot of times

4:26

those those folks are are are masking

4:32

to fit in. And so while we had an amazing

4:32

childhood together,

4:37

man, we packed in a lifetime of

4:37

experiences ~ in those 16 and a half

4:44

especially in those younger years.

4:45

During COVID, he fell into ~

4:49

A deep depression, began to have suicidal

4:49

ideation,

4:54

and that's that was his freshman year,

4:56

and that started a two-year journey for us

4:56

~ where we were doing everything together

5:02

we possibly could to save his life.

5:05

He didn't he didn't want to die.

5:07

But unfortunately, what we came to realize

5:07

is so much of the mental health world

5:14

is not suited for the neurodiverse.

5:16

So whether

5:18

Those were ~ facilities that we went to,

5:22

mental health facilities, ~ ER,

5:25

~ therapists and what have you.

5:28

It's kind of like in the mental health

5:28

world,

5:30

it's a one size fits all w world.

5:32

And in the autism world, of all the things

5:32

they made us aware of that could happen

5:38

for Anthony, like having a difficult time

5:38

making friends or being bullied.

5:44

And there's a short list of things that

5:44

they prepared us for.

5:46

Those two things never happened.

5:48

He worked so hard. Like I said,

5:49

he was really popular, but what they

5:49

didn't prepare us for was

5:54

the mental health challenge. And sadly,

5:57

within a few weeks of Anthony's passing,

6:00

~ an acquaintance reached out and shared

6:00

with us something that rocked our world.

6:06

She shared with us that kids between the

6:06

ages of 12 and 18 with Anthony's.

6:13

High functioning autism diagnosis are

6:13

nearly three times more likely

6:17

to die by suicide, and that they're the

6:17

number one group for completion.

6:22

And my wife and I heard this news.

6:24

We felt a call to something greater,

6:28

a passion to make sure that no family

6:28

would go through what we've gone through,

6:34

and that no child would be left unseen.

6:38

And we started the endurant movement,

6:41

nonprofit, which

6:42

you know, we we may have an opportunity to

6:42

speak about a bit.

6:45

But the the point being a couple things

6:45

happened out of this experience.

6:48

That call to something greater and I for

6:48

Samar and I to help teens specifically

6:55

and neurodivergent teens specifically.

6:57

And then also this experience that I've

6:57

shared through the loss of Anthony,

7:03

I'm going through this spiritual

7:08

and soulful transformation somehow,

7:11

some way.

7:12

through the grace of God, universe,

7:14

but really what it is through the support

7:14

and love of ~ my community,

7:18

instead of being in the fetal position

7:18

suffering,

7:21

which would be reasonable and

7:21

understandable,

7:23

I'm somehow transmuting this this pain

7:23

into purpose and personally feel

7:29

a calling to help adults who are carrying

7:29

significant pain from trauma

7:34

or loss of their own, understand that

7:34

there is a path forward.

7:40

There's a destiny that's still being

7:40

written for them.

7:42

And I would even, I don't want to argue,

7:45

but would even share my own lived

7:45

experience that there's the possibility

7:50

to carry extraordinary levels of trauma

7:50

and inexplicable levels of pain.

7:56

But also true with that is the possibility

7:56

to experience

8:02

new levels of joy, pleasure, intimacy,

8:05

connection that weren't available before.

8:09

I don't want that to sound silver

8:09

lining-ish because it's not.

8:13

I would trade it all back to have my son

8:13

back.

8:16

But there is a call to something greater

8:16

if our hearts are open and

8:22

our eyes are open so we can see.

8:24

There's angels here on earth all around us

8:24

that that are wanna love on

8:29

us and pull us and show us the light

8:29

forward.

8:32

So ~ that's a long sort of summary.

8:38

of the story and I'll I'll leave it up to

8:38

you,

8:40

Travis, in terms of where we wanna

8:41

No, it's

8:42

drill down.

8:43

yeah, it's it no, I I think it's perfect.

8:45

And one thing I want to point out is I saw

8:45

this thing about depression,

8:50

I think it was yesterday, just a clip.

8:52

And the guy talking said,

8:55

You really don't know how you like you

8:55

don't really know

9:00

or understand depression until it hits

9:00

you.

9:03

People don't really know how to be build

9:03

hip what's the word I'm looking for?

9:09

How bad it is until it hits you because

9:09

it's it takes over your whole body.

9:14

It's not just a mind thing like people

9:14

think.

9:16

And he

9:17

That's right.

9:18

said that he was one of those people that

9:18

hit him and he couldn't get out of bed.

9:22

And so from that point on, he he had more

9:22

compassion

9:28

and a better understanding for people that

9:28

had chronic depression.

9:31

I

9:33

I go ahead.

9:34

just said I I was gonna say it was I think

9:34

it was a cool.

9:38

Or different way to explain what

9:38

depression really looks like.

9:43

I I think it's really, really important ~

9:43

and to build upon what you've shared

9:49

is even just the whole idea of mental

9:49

health

9:54

and and the disease of depression and the

9:54

disease of mental health.

9:59

You know, ~ the comedian Martin Schwartz

9:59

said it best recently.

10:05

~ sadly for him, he lost his wife to

10:05

cancer about four or five years ago

10:10

and he he lost his daughter to

10:13

To suicides, it's gotta be five,

10:15

six months ago now. But he compared the

10:15

two and he said something that really

10:19

resonated with me. He said, much like the

10:19

disease of cancer,

10:24

the disease of mental health is sometimes

10:24

terminal.

10:28

And that's true. I know you shared with me

10:28

before we went

10:33

on your own experience with depression and

10:33

mental health and where it led you.

10:38

And you know, I I've had various

10:38

experiences of depression,

10:42

but

10:43

it's a spectrum, right? And in and in some

10:43

cases the disease can be

10:48

so gripping that it it's it's terminal.

10:51

And as much as I believe in and want and

10:51

will champion

10:56

the idea of zero suicide,

11:00

zero deaths by suicide, we must

11:00

acknowledge the truth of the matter

11:05

is that much like other diseases,

11:08

there's a a range of possibilities and

11:11

Especially for any parents out there who

11:11

have lost ~ a month like last month

11:16

in September where the focus is on

11:16

prevention,

11:18

prevention, prevention. It can be really

11:18

hard for us sometimes to not take that

11:22

on as guilt because we weren't able to

11:22

prevent.

11:25

And hopefully you can find some relief in

11:25

that if you're struggling with that,

11:30

because I'm sure like me, all the

11:30

decisions you made for your child were

11:35

out of love and and in their best interest

11:35

and

11:39

As hard as it is to hear that our only job

11:39

is to protect our children,

11:43

~ sometimes it's just not it's just not

11:43

possible.

11:50

Yeah, and I I I can't even

11:56

Think of what that would feel like to lose

11:56

a child.

11:58

Mine are still so young, so but I I ru I

12:04

do recall ~ getting a phone call from my

12:04

mom when I was eighteen and she asked

12:10

me if I was sitting down. I said,

12:11

No, why? She said, You might want to be

12:11

sitting down.

12:14

And she had told me that somebody I went

12:14

to high school with had ~ died by suicide.

12:20

And it was just heart wrenching.

12:23

Like it was

12:24

Like I I remember dropping to the f floor

12:24

and just losing it and just this

12:30

gut punch to the stomach. And I s I sat

12:30

there for probably twenty minutes,

12:36

just unable to move. Because it was

12:36

somebody that I never saw it happening to.

12:45

~ dwell first and foremost, ~ you know,

12:49

Travis, I'm really sorry for for your loss

12:49

and and I can't imagine what that must

12:54

have felt like in high school,

12:56

you know, to to see and be be so fortunate

12:56

to

13:02

hear from so many of Ant's friends and

13:02

it's been two years now and

13:07

to have them still, even though they're

13:07

all off at college,

13:10

to to make a point of getting together

13:10

with us over Christmas or over

13:14

the summer and ~ the loss is extraordinary

13:14

and I could still see it in their faces.

13:20

They don't know what happened.

13:22

It doesn't make sense. You know,

13:24

what so many of them said if this could

13:24

happen to to Anthony,

13:27

it could happen to any one of us.

13:28

And

13:30

It's really true and it's really hard and

13:30

it must have been very difficult

13:33

to to go through that experience in high

13:33

school.

13:37

~ yeah, man. So my my heart goes out to

13:37

you and it it goes

13:42

out to them and it's ~ it's such a mystery

13:42

because

13:48

our minds want answers, right?

13:51

I want to know what happened or why is Ant

13:51

gone.

13:55

And ~ you know a an answer will will never

14:01

replace him it will never also provide the

14:06

the freedom that that we think ~ an answer

14:06

is gonna provide us.

14:11

It it it just won't. But there there are

14:11

other things that could happen from it.

14:16

And ~ I'm just glad to have this

14:16

conversation because ~ you know what

14:21

the kids talked about is they said if if

14:21

this is could happen to Anthony,

14:25

it could happen to any of us. And what Ant

14:25

himself shared,

14:28

you know, his junior year

14:30

This this battle, like I said,

14:31

was a couple year journey of us all trying

14:31

to to save his life and keep him here.

14:36

But

14:36

Mm.

14:37

he was so aware of it. ~ he

14:43

had plans for his senior project to

14:47

be on ~ suicide prevention and suicide

14:47

awareness.

14:52

And specifically what he shared with his

14:52

mom and and ultimately me is that

14:56

we have to say the word suicide.

14:59

We have to

14:59

break through the stigma, which is is so

14:59

powerful for such a young man

15:05

to bring that kind of attention to that.

15:08

And it's so fascinating how much is being

15:08

done,

15:10

whether it's the platform's throttling

15:13

Yeah.

15:13

or or whatever it is, just how stigmatized

15:13

that word is.

15:18

Yeah.

15:18

But through the work that that we're doing

15:18

and ~ even the the clarity

15:23

I can feel from you and how you described

15:23

the experience of losing your friend

15:28

not saying he committed suicide or he took

15:28

his life or any of those things that

15:33

commit and take are acts of crime.

15:36

No one no one

15:37

Yeah.

15:37

commits cancer. No one commits you know

15:37

but but ~

15:43

to to die by suicide is to be to to be

15:43

lost to a disease.

15:47

So anyways, all that to say man,

15:49

I I honor you for creating these this

15:49

conversation so that we can

15:56

Well well I think this the this

15:56

conversation,

15:59

especially nowadays with ~ suicide being

15:59

so prevalent among younger

16:05

generations. I hear stories all the time

16:10

of these young kids and it just breaks my

16:10

heart and I always wanna

16:15

I always think like well what can I do to

16:15

to you know help out and it's

16:21

one thing I know I can do is

16:24

share these stories, invite people on to

16:24

share their stories because I know

16:27

it will hit that one person. And but while

16:27

I'm thinking about it,

16:32

I do have a question.

16:34

Yes.

16:34

What do you think like knowing what you

16:34

know now,

16:38

what do you think society can do different

16:38

to help ~ people that

16:43

are neurodivergent with mental health?

16:48

man, that's such a great question.

16:50

I'm so glad you asked. ~ the number one

16:50

thing we could do

16:53

to help neurodivergent youth with their

16:53

mental health is to

17:02

In many ways, we gotta break through the

17:02

the stigma of the labeling.

17:08

So as soon as my wife and I learned of

17:08

this stat that I shared with you,

17:14

and we we turned our lives towards the

17:14

purpose of closing this

17:18

gap between neurodiversity and suicide,

17:20

the woman who shared the stat with me

17:20

initially shared some great work that

17:24

was being done in the United Kingdom and

17:24

then introduced me to a

17:28

To a psychiatrist specifically on the East

17:28

Coast,

17:31

and the best thing we can do to help any

17:31

of these kids with any diagnoses

17:36

on the spectrum, any diagnosis that ends

17:36

with the word D,

17:41

we must ~ we just must remove that D,

17:45

right? So autism spectrum disorder,

17:47

you know, ~ attention deficit disorder,

17:51

or you know, all of the labels that end in

17:51

disorder.

17:55

We are literally labeling and reinforcing

17:55

for our kids that something is wrong.

18:01

Right? So if you have a disorder,

18:03

you have to go to the autism center to get

18:03

treatment to be normal.

18:08

And I'm I'm guilty of this.

18:11

I didn't I didn't know. So we were

18:11

flippantly referred to it as ASD or ~ you

18:16

someone's diagnosed with autism spectrum

18:16

disorder just because that's what they

18:21

But what this psychiatrist has found that

18:21

is saving this kid's lives is very simple.

18:25

Very simple. He's sitting down with these

18:25

kids and the first thing he's telling

18:28

Yeah.

18:29

them is you are not your disorder.

18:33

We're gonna drop that D. You have

18:33

something called autism spectrum

18:37

or whatever whatever the neurodivergence

18:37

is.

18:39

Yeah.

18:41

But all it means is you are you have a

18:41

difference.

18:45

I have brown eyes. I I can't see what

18:45

color your eyes are.

18:48

Are they brown too?

18:50

Play.

18:50

Blue. Okay, perfect. I have brown eyes and

18:50

you have blue eyes,

18:54

right? And i i it's as simple as that.

18:57

I'm

18:59

neurotypical, you're neurodivergent,

19:00

I'm neurodivergent, you're neurotypical.

19:02

But help these under kid and these kids

19:02

understand they're not their diagnosis.

19:07

They're sure as heck not a disorder.

19:08

There's nothing wrong with them.

19:10

They have a difference. And then when we

19:10

once we can separate those things,

19:14

now we can go into some really cool stuff.

19:17

And much like we do with neurotypical

19:17

kids,

19:20

let's help them find their tribe.

19:23

Let's help them find their superhero and

19:23

let's help them find their superpower.

19:28

So instead of training them to behave in a

19:28

world that wasn't built for them

19:34

and fit in, we need to set all that aside

19:34

and help them understand

19:36

Time.

19:38

and embrace their differences and help

19:38

them understand that their differences,

19:44

they're superpowers, right? So my

19:44

superhero might have been,

19:48

you know, the 1986 world champion,

19:50

first baseman of the New York Mets,

19:52

Keith Hernandez. So I'm dating myself.

19:53

I don't know if anyone knows him.

19:54

Yep.

19:55

Maybe

19:55

Michael Jordan, let's just say,

19:56

right?

19:58

somebody with you know neurodivergence

19:58

might choose instead Elon Musk,

20:03

right? Because we we want to embrace that.

20:05

So instead of trying to get these kids to

20:05

fit in the box is helping them find their

20:12

interests, their superpower. But more

20:12

important than anything,

20:15

their tribe. So they feel like they belong

20:15

and fit in.

20:19

And I gotta tell you, Travis, when I when

20:19

I understood this stat,

20:27

I thought it was going to be this,

20:28

and we launched the nonprofit.

20:30

I thought it was going to be like heavy

20:30

advocacy and like breaking through

20:35

and changing all this stuff. And I was so

20:35

relieved to understand many times over,

20:40

like literally just how simple that is.

20:43

So long answer to your short question for

20:43

any parents who are listening,

20:48

but more importantly, any teens or youth

20:48

that are listening,

20:52

the best thing that you can do to support

20:52

anyone that feels different.

20:57

is embrace their differences, help them

20:57

belong and feel belong,

21:03

and help them find their superhero and

21:03

what their you know their God-given,

21:09

spirit-given gift is, and their tribe,

21:12

because the only thing we know for certain

21:12

is when these youth feel like they belong

21:17

and that they're part of a tribe and that

21:17

they can be who they are.

21:22

They don't have to mask to fit in

21:22

somewhere.

21:25

They're going to stay.

21:28

Yeah,

21:28

and I absolutely love that. Especially the

21:28

part where you mentioned let's

21:33

not label it. Let's let's change the

21:33

wording a little bit so

21:37

the kids can understand.

21:41

what they have more is because like I

21:41

agree.

21:44

I think we label too much in general

21:44

anyways as society and it drives me crazy.

21:48

But it's I I think back to when I've been

21:48

in therapy

21:55

and I've been told not to label myself as,

21:58

you know, having like you're not your

21:58

anxiety disorder.

22:01

You have anxiety, but it's it's not who

22:01

you are.

22:05

And don't let it stay that way.

22:10

And it's just a

22:10

This is

22:10

precisely that. Your disorder doesn't

22:10

define you.

22:14

Yeah.

22:14

It's an attribute of who you are.

22:18

And it's it's up to you to understand how

22:18

that fits

22:24

in for you and to get the help to know

22:24

that it's not something you have to fix,

22:31

but something to be aware of that's a part

22:31

of you,

22:34

so that you can navigate the world.

22:38

in your way not fit into the world

22:39

Mm-hmm.

22:40

in their way.

22:42

Yes, yes. Totally, totally agree.

22:44

This is this is good stuff, I love it.

22:47

So

22:48

Meet to you.

22:49

another question for you. I'm gonna kind

22:49

of throw the ball back towards

22:54

you yourself. So people often talk about,

22:58

you know, the immediate shock after losing

22:58

someone,

23:02

but not necessarily what happens months or

23:02

years later.

23:05

~ what were some of the struggles you

23:05

faced?

23:09

That people around you could not see.

23:11

Hmm. Really good question. So ~ I I

23:17

I was ~ fortunate in many ways,

23:20

Travis, because ~ the evening that that my

23:20

son made the decision that

23:26

he did in this mixed up state ~ and died

23:26

by suicide,

23:32

~ a passerby found him. First came and

23:32

revived him.

23:38

And he was brought back to life.

23:39

So so he didn't die that night.

23:44

Had he died that night, I'm not sure that

23:44

I would be here in this way.

23:49

It would have been so shocking.

23:52

~ I just can't say for certainty that we'd

23:52

be here together in this way.

23:57

But what I can say for certainty is

23:57

because

24:02

He was revived, even though he had

24:02

significant brain injuries and never quite

24:07

it out of a coma state. We had nine weeks

24:07

with him.

24:13

And we got to we got to be with him.

24:17

We got to do everything we possibly could

24:17

to to to save his life.

24:21

~ we were fortunate, you know,

24:24

Radies Children's Hospital in San Diego is

24:24

a little slice of heaven here on earth.

24:29

Those doctors and

24:31

Nurses are just angels here on earth and

24:31

despite his MRI and the prognosis that

24:36

if he survived he would never be able to

24:36

walk,

24:39

talk.

24:42

~ see again. The doctors set aside the

24:42

data

24:48

and the MRI and said to us, ~ hand to God,

24:51

this is the place of miracles.

24:53

And they just poured themselves

24:54

Yeah.

24:55

into him. And ~ equally,

24:59

if not more importantly, a friend of mine,

25:02

a client, reached out and asked that very

25:02

first night,

25:05

could she host an all faiths welcome

25:05

prayer circle?

25:09

She would do this on Zoom and

25:11

invite people to come in and pray over us

25:11

and it was extraordinary the

25:17

the love and care that we felt and it was

25:17

so impactful Travis that over

25:23

the nine weeks before Anthony Anthony

25:23

ultimately transitioned

25:29

every Sunday a new person raised their

25:29

hand to lead this Zoom and we'd have

25:35

between 75 and 150 people and we called it

25:35

the joining of faith's prayer circle

25:41

Because something extraordinary happened

25:41

during that time.

25:44

People came from all faiths and all

25:44

religious beliefs,

25:49

some of whom I would know would clash

25:49

about their beliefs.

25:53

But here in those calls, whether they

25:53

shared that Jesus died

25:59

on the cross so that Anthony could,

26:01

or in the Zohar is believed that Anthony

26:01

is in favor because,

26:05

or in the Buddhist tradition, we believe

26:05

this,

26:09

or in Judaism.

26:11

Anthony is being watched over because,

26:13

or even non-believers, it was so powerful,

26:16

Travis, for myself and my wife and my

26:16

daughter and my parents,

26:21

and Ant himself, Anthony went by Ant.

26:23

~ No matter the lens of the religion or

26:23

the belief,

26:29

what was received by us through that lens

26:29

was pure love and light.

26:34

And so I don't know about you.

26:35

In the past, I've been asked to.

26:37

To pray for someone who's sick or to pray

26:37

for someone who's lost a loved

26:42

one or to send intentions or healing

26:42

vibes,

26:44

and I do it. And I'll I'll drop to my

26:44

knees and I'll I'll send those

26:49

Yeah.

26:49

intentions. I'll I'll say a prayer.

26:51

And I feel good that I've done it,

26:54

but I've never felt anything

26:54

energetically.

26:57

Well, what I can share with you with

26:57

certainty,

27:00

getting all the way back to your question,

27:02

two years later, I still feel that love

27:02

and connection.

27:08

I I I feel energy. People somewhere right

27:08

now are thinking about us,

27:13

praying for us, whatever it is.

27:17

And it what I could share with you is the

27:17

collective power of

27:22

the group coming together from wherever

27:22

they are on this planet in love

27:27

and care for one person or one family.

27:30

That energy is felt and it stays with us.

27:33

And that is the thing.

27:36

That has enabled me to somehow transmute

27:36

this take your breath away.

27:42

You couldn't even try it on if you wanted

27:42

to,

27:45

level of pain, into something that that I

27:45

can carry forward.

27:49

So ~ yeah,

27:53

I mean, it answers your question kind of.

27:57

Yeah. All

27:57

Yeah. ~ no, I think that's fantastic.

27:59

right.

28:00

And it's

28:03

I absolutely love that a community like

28:03

that got together despite differences

28:09

and beliefs and stuff to pray for you.

28:12

I think that is like just one of the best

28:12

things I've ever heard on the show.

28:18

Because it shows that in moments of need,

28:23

people are willing to look past those

28:23

differences because it means something.

28:29

Like there's there's a lot of meaning

28:29

behind it.

28:34

And it's it doesn't matter in the end,

28:35

it doesn't matter like our beliefs,

28:38

like we're joining forces. And to me I

28:38

think that's a huge,

28:42

huge round of applause to anybody who

28:42

joined forces to to pray for

28:47

you and your family.

28:49

It it it's so well said, man, and that's

28:49

that's precisely what happened.

28:54

And I think ~ what the humans might not

28:54

realize is is that

29:00

the level of pain and despair that they

29:00

saw my family in,

29:04

you know, all that all that washed away.

29:08

They just wanted to love upon us.

29:09

And I think about sometimes ~ the families

29:09

who may not be blessed with the

29:16

the community that maybe my wife and I

29:16

have cultivated.

29:19

You know, I'm an extrovert, I'm an

29:19

outgoing guy.

29:21

I I love human beings. And so I've you

29:21

know,

29:25

I'm fifty-two, I got a lot of friends,

29:28

but if anyone's listening or watching and

29:28

saying,

29:30

well that that must have been real nice,

29:32

like I don't I don't have those friends.

29:34

I don't have ~ anybody. You know,

29:37

community isn't something that that you go

29:37

to.

29:40

Community starts

29:43

when one human vulnerably shares with

29:43

another human what's going on with them.

29:47

So if you find yourself struggling right

29:47

now and you don't have this this person

29:52

that could spin up this prayer circle or

29:52

all these things that we've just

29:57

it just if you take anything from this

30:03

It's the vulnerability to just to take

30:03

that one thing that seems so hard and so,

30:09

I could never share that with anybody,

30:11

and find one human being in much in the

30:11

same way Travis just said,

30:15

you know, these people were able to take

30:15

set down their differences

30:19

and pour themselves into us. I think it's

30:19

because of the

30:24

the vulnerability and the rawness that

30:24

that activates the

30:31

the soul connection that exists within us

30:31

all.

30:34

You know, these human bodies and these

30:34

minds,

30:37

especially the minds, they take us in a

30:37

different direction.

30:40

But when we can get out of our heads and

30:40

into our hearts and share vulnerably with

30:44

another, it will land in their heart and

30:44

that'll open up that,

30:49

that possibility to to experience the

30:49

things that that Travis and

30:54

I just shared about.

30:56

Yeah, and I will say that being being

30:56

vulnerable is very difficult,

31:01

especially when you first start doing it

31:01

and having those conversations with other

31:05

people. I remember my first time with this

31:05

show,

31:10

it was just a solo podcast and I was

31:10

sharing my story.

31:13

And looking back now I could probably

31:13

share that in a much brighter light

31:19

and be more comfortable in front of a

31:19

camera.

31:22

I just remember it was very uncomfortable

31:22

for me,

31:25

but I did it because I felt like I needed

31:25

to do it.

31:29

Did you did and and people will resonate

31:29

with that far more

31:34

so than how how polished you are or

31:34

anything.

31:37

I mean you you've probably heard this,

31:39

~ said it. You know, but people don't

31:39

remember so much what you said,

31:44

they remember how you made them feel and

31:44

that that that vulnerability,

31:48

that authenticity, you never know it it it

31:48

will help someone share something that

31:54

they couldn't have ever imagined sharing,

31:57

which will open up

31:58

Healing and growth for them.

32:01

And while we're talking about

32:01

vulnerability,

32:03

you actually said something before the

32:03

show that I want you to dive into because

32:08

sure.

32:08

I love the saying Vul you said that

32:08

vulnerability is your superpower.

32:12

Yeah.

32:13

What does that mean to you and how did you

32:13

come to believe it?

32:17

~ yeah, great question. So ~ so what what

32:17

vulnerability means

32:23

to me is is

32:28

is taking something so difficult that you

32:28

couldn't ever imagine sharing

32:35

and sharing it anyways. And how how I

32:35

became

32:41

to know that vulnerability was my

32:41

superpower is I didn't come to this belief

32:48

~ but I would say it was somewhere between

32:48

the third and fifth person that shared

32:54

it with me independent of the others.

32:58

That I started to believe that that maybe

32:58

there's something here.

33:01

I shared vulnerably out

33:04

of self-preservation because what I

33:04

experienced

33:10

was so shocking. ~ it wasn't surprising

33:10

because,

33:16

like I said, we had this two-year journey,

33:18

so that was always a possibility.

33:21

But it was so shocking, and I just wanted

33:21

to hide.

33:26

I didn't want to be.

33:30

That guy, ~ but

33:36

I was in the corner in the fetal position,

33:38

just just suffering, and I didn't know

33:38

what to do.

33:42

And it was so

33:46

So intense.

33:49

that I just had to get it out,

33:50

you know, and I just ~ I had this group of

33:50

~ my best friends and again

33:55

I'm I'm blessed with

33:58

handful of really best friends and we

33:58

started this text chain called Forza Ant.

34:04

And ~ you know, I just started sharing

34:04

with them what happened,

34:10

and that created the courage to share more

34:10

with people

34:16

who maybe weren't as I wasn't as tight

34:16

with,

34:19

and then family members, and then

34:19

ultimately acquaintances.

34:22

And now I could share with people that I

34:22

meet with the first time instead of

34:27

Being ashamed about it. And I think really

34:27

for me,

34:32

because I was able to get it out,

34:35

it helped me heal.

34:38

I don't have a better analogy,

34:40

other than like, you know, when we're

34:40

little kids and and we cry and

34:45

cry and cry like that. You know,

34:48

we're crying and crying, and you know,

34:49

maybe well, whatever, we don't get our way

34:49

or we don't get something or whatever.

34:53

But but ultimately when that crying stops,

34:55

there's like a

34:57

~ And like a release, and then we're like,

35:00

~ okay. All right, let's go, let's go

35:00

play.

35:02

You know, and it's it's it's

35:03

Mm-hmm.

35:04

it's like the adult version of that.

35:06

It's like if I bottle it up inside the

35:06

shame,

35:10

the pain, the horror, the trauma,

35:12

it was literally eating me alive.

35:15

But I shared about it to preserve,

35:20

and then ultimately what I was receiving

35:20

back when people were sharing with me.

35:25

That my vulnerability was a superpower,

35:27

that how it helped them, and they would

35:27

give me a specific example.

35:31

Now I unlocked even more because when we

35:31

can get out of our heads and

35:36

out of our suffering and then out of our

35:36

pain and give to someone else,

35:41

now we're unlocking true, true purpose and

35:41

growth.

35:45

You know, and it's only been about two

35:45

years for me,

35:49

but I

35:52

welcome anytime someone's lost a parent or

35:52

excuse me,

35:55

lost a child or lost a child in this way,

35:58

I ~ I want to make myself available for

35:58

them because I have

36:04

two years of experience. You know,

36:06

they may be at at two days. So yeah,

36:10

I mean I think that's the genesis of the

36:10

vulnerability as a superpower.

36:16

Yeah, that's I love it and I I've said

36:16

this so many times on the show,

36:20

but it just reinstates I always feel like

36:20

this hour that

36:26

I spend with people is just a free therapy

36:26

session for me because I get

36:31

so much out of stuff.

36:34

Well, you and me both. That's why I keep

36:34

saying yes to these interviews.

36:36

So for for someone who you

36:39

know listening who is struggling privately

36:39

but feels like they have

36:44

to keep everything together, how can they

36:44

begin opening

36:47

up without feeling completely exposed?

36:51

Yeah, that's a that's a great question.

36:53

And I think ~

36:57

You you've got it you've got to tiptoe

36:57

into it,

36:59

right? Because like for me, when you talk

36:59

about completely exposed,

37:04

you know what it feels like to me?

37:05

Like like ~ I I I'm here at a beach

37:05

community.

37:09

So it's like it's like

37:09

Yeah.

37:10

the it's like the tide has gone out and my

37:10

shorts are down.

37:14

Yeah. Uh-huh.

37:14

You know what I mean? We talk about

37:14

exposed,

37:17

I'm like, my god, look at this.

37:19

But that's that's a tough

37:21

Yeah,

37:22

You know, you don't want to go from zero

37:22

to that.

37:24

So I think it really comes back to the

37:24

conversation we were having a

37:27

a few minutes ago is one person,

37:31

one

37:32

Mm-hmm.

37:32

person. You know, we're so conditioned to

37:32

keep our grief to ourselves.

37:38

But if you could find one person in your

37:38

world,

37:42

then it doesn't have to be a family

37:42

member,

37:44

it could be a friend, it could be an

37:44

acquaintance,

37:46

but someone you feel like would be safe to

37:46

share.

37:51

This shameful piece with this loss with

37:51

whatever whatever it is,

37:56

there's such a peace in articulating that

37:56

with another human being

38:02

and them just being present to receive it.

38:05

So yeah, you don't have to take this so

38:05

far like I have,

38:11

where I'm willing to to to be on this

38:11

podcast completely naked,

38:16

but but do take do take a step because

38:21

You're gonna feel that relief we were

38:21

talking about together when that then that

38:27

freedom of being held and and sharing this

38:27

thing that you just think

38:31

is is so shameful that no one would ever

38:31

still love you about

38:34

And we can spot that lost things.

38:37

~

38:37

and have the experience that that not only

38:37

do they,

38:41

they love you even more for being

38:41

vulnerable about it.

38:47

Now you start stacking those experiences,

38:50

and those will be your path to really

38:50

truly understand your life's purpose.

38:55

Why are we here? How can I help?

38:58

How can I heal? How can I serve others?

39:01

You know, because I want to be able to

39:01

look back at this.

39:05

You know, I don't know if you believe

39:05

this,

39:07

but I do. You know, when I reunite with my

39:07

son on the other side,

39:11

heaven, where wherever, wherever it is.

39:14

~

39:16

I know he's at peace, but when I re when I

39:16

reunite with him,

39:19

it's it's gonna feel like not a moment is

39:19

passed.

39:22

And so do I wanna be looking back at him

39:22

with him and just be like,

39:26

~ dad, I can understand why you suffered

39:26

with the years and decades you had left,

39:31

or are we gonna celebrate the work that

39:31

we've done together,

39:36

the the lives that we've impacted,

39:38

and the lives that we've saved?

39:40

And so now I've carried it all the way

39:40

forward,

39:44

but that that pebble drop being just

39:46

vulnerably sharing with with one person ~

39:46

so that you can

39:54

have that feeling that you're not alone,

39:56

that there's another soul on the planet

39:56

here that that sees you and feels you.

40:02

That's that's really the first step.

40:05

Yeah,

40:05

it's very very well said. And you talked a

40:05

little bit about people feeling shameful

40:11

about you know admitting that they are

40:11

feeling these things.

40:15

I just wanna say and point this out,

40:18

is there's nothing to be ashamed of.

40:20

These these feelings are fairly normal.

40:24

And you one thing I've learned is

40:27

Every person has a story. And your story's

40:27

different than mine,

40:31

of course, but we can at some point I

40:37

I I totally believe that our like our

40:37

stories to somehow connect

40:42

and cross paths because we might be

40:42

different.

40:45

I might have experienced depression or

40:45

whatever different than you,

40:48

but it's still depression. There's still

40:48

that line that crosses.

40:53

Man, I'm so glad you brought that up,

40:55

Travis, because I I fancy myself a really

40:55

caring and loving guy,

40:59

just generally speaking, and even before

40:59

this,

41:02

but I can tell you the distinction that I

41:02

now have that is

41:07

so clear that everyone is going through

41:07

something or will

41:12

Yeah, if

41:13

be going through something. And as much as

41:13

I understood that before,

41:13

we can score. ~

41:17

it was never

41:19

Like it is now where I could just be at

41:19

the beach or on a bike ride or just

41:23

on a bench and looking around at the

41:23

humans and asking myself,

41:27

I wonder what he may be struggling with or

41:27

what she may be struggling with.

41:31

Or if I get in an argument with someone

41:31

that I don't know and I'm

41:34

so certain I'm right, I now know,

41:38

well, they they could be going through

41:38

something that I didn't consider that

41:42

may be leading them to behave this way.

41:44

And the reason I know that is because it

41:44

happens to me,

41:47

especially with anger.

41:49

And some of these things that are tied to

41:49

to grief that come up unexpectedly.

41:53

So just knowing and being aware and

41:53

appreciating that everyone

41:58

on this planet is going through something.

42:01

And if they're not, they're going to be.

42:04

That may be, in fact, while we're here,

42:06

why we're here, to have those experiences

42:06

so that we can grow from them.

42:12

But but yeah, I think I'm glad that you

42:12

called that out because it's true.

42:16

Yeah.

42:18

It's been a big part of my experience.

42:23

And and now I'd love for you to get into

42:23

your ~ your I wanna say

42:27

you said non profit, the enduro way

42:29

Yes. Yeah, yeah. So yeah,

42:33

so the the

42:34

nonprofit is actually called the Endurant

42:34

Movement.

42:37

And it's endurant movement dot org.

42:39

And the endurant movement exists so that

42:39

no teen,

42:40

I guess

42:43

including the neurodiverse,

42:45

ever has to feel alone. And if this is

42:45

something that you're interested

42:50

in learning more about, you could learn

42:50

about it at the endurant movement dot org.

42:54

~ and it's really powerful.

42:58

We're doing great work with teens.

43:00

We've got a a bunch of podcasts.

43:03

That's why I'm in a studio here.

43:04

Teen-led podcast in

43:05

Yeah.

43:06

front of the camera, behind the camera.

43:08

But we're also working with the teens to ~

43:08

create safe spaces.

43:14

So what exists right now is nothing unless

43:14

you're in crisis.

43:20

So if you're in crisis and you're

43:20

suffering from suicidal ideation.

43:27

And you have a plan, then you could be

43:27

admitted to the ER,

43:32

you could be admitted to a behavioral

43:32

facility,

43:35

and that's a crisis intervention.

43:37

But if you're struggling with deep

43:37

depression or suicidal ideation that

43:42

reached

43:45

The mix up of a plan,

43:48

~ nothing exists. So now if you go to the

43:48

emergency room or if you

43:54

go to these behavioral facilities,

43:55

you're like almost traumatized by the

43:55

experience.

43:59

It it left our son feeling less hopeful.

44:02

And so we are starting, ~ we're launching

44:02

our very first ~ what we're calling Ants

44:09

Place, a safe place where where teens can

44:09

go.

44:13

And regulate and calm their nervous system

44:13

and be cared for and have community

44:13

Well,

44:14

~

44:18

and connection. And then there'll also be

44:18

resources available so that if they

44:23

are in crisis or it it is a situation that

44:23

requires escalation,

44:28

we can ~ point them to the places that

44:28

they need to go.

44:33

And and that's the work we're doing.

44:36

And I'm really excited to share.

44:37

If if you go to that website.

44:39

We're doing a comedy event in in La Jolla,

44:41

California called the Laugh and Death

44:41

Tour,

44:44

~ because we want to

44:50

Raise money to create these places for

44:50

these teens,

44:53

but also understand where there's loss,

44:56

where there's trauma, comedy is such a

44:56

powerful mechanism

45:02

to interrupt when our mind tells us we

45:02

just can't laugh,

45:07

we just can't experience joy. There's

45:07

nothing I could say or do to

45:10

you that would help you understand the joy

45:10

that's possible and available

45:13

I don't know what you're talking

45:15

to you if you don't

45:16

about.

45:17

~

45:17

If you're not at least open to that

45:17

possibility,

45:19

but laughter is is the one thing and the

45:19

only thing I know of that myself

45:23

or any human who says, You can't make me

45:23

laugh,

45:26

there's nothing you could do that would

45:26

make me laugh.

45:28

The right joke at the right time will ~

45:28

unlock that laughter.

45:33

So really grateful that some Hollywood

45:33

comedians have have come together

45:38

and we're gonna do this first event in on

45:38

November

45:42

15th in San Diego. If you're

45:44

Nowhere near San Diego, please still look

45:44

us up at that website and drop

45:49

me a line because we'd love to bring it to

45:49

your community.

45:53

And we're going to open up these ants

45:53

places and borrowed spaces to start,

45:57

libraries, coffee shops, but making sure

45:57

every day there's somewhere where teens

46:03

can go to have the support that they need

46:03

in a non-clinical fashion,

46:07

but a professional fashion, but also that

46:07

is peer-to-peer,

46:11

led and run by.

46:12

Teens. There's nothing we've seen more to

46:12

impact the mental health

46:16

of teens than teens helping teens.

46:20

I think that's that's awesome.

46:22

You're totally empowering these teenagers

46:22

to create these safe spaces

46:29

and to figure out it's almost to me in my

46:29

mind I see it's like they're figuring

46:34

out kinda how to ~ deal with these life

46:41

problems that there that come up.

46:43

That's that's awesome. And at the same

46:43

time,

46:47

you're living this really meaningful life

46:47

with Anthony fully involved.

46:54

So cool.

46:55

Yes. Yes.

46:57

And then the other thing I'd add,

46:59

I really try not to confuse it or take the

46:59

attention off the nonprofit,

47:04

because that's where we need the most

47:04

help.

47:05

Well

47:06

But

47:06

you mentioned the endurant way.

47:07

That's work that I'm doing myself.

47:10

~ you can find more information about that

47:10

at Neiltrekerico.com.

47:15

I I won't spell all that out, it's a

47:15

mouthful.

47:18

You could see it if you're watching this,

47:18

Hehehehe

47:20

but it'll also

47:21

likely be in the show notes. But that's

47:21

that's a

47:24

a safe place in a community for adults who

47:24

are carrying

47:26

I think.

47:27

significant loss or pain like like I am,

47:30

who can't yet see a path forward,

47:35

but want to find a path forward to to to

47:35

keep living.

47:39

And that's

47:41

No.

47:42

that that work is is my is my lived

47:42

experience because all the great work that

47:49

we're going to do for the teens and we are

47:49

doing and the lives that

47:52

are already being saved.

47:54

from our work, yet there still will be

47:54

there will be loss,

47:58

and I want to make myself available to to

47:58

help the humans who are

48:03

who are struggling to to find their way

48:03

because ~ there there is a there

48:08

is a path forward and it's not requiring a

48:08

lot of work or doing but just very simply

48:14

is is that vulnerability that just says my

48:14

heart is open and if your heart

48:19

is open the angels here on earth

48:24

will show themselves and light the path

48:24

forward.

48:24

Yeah, so it's a little bit more.

48:26

But additional to your heart being open,

48:28

your head's gotta be up and your eyes have

48:28

to be open so you could see them.

48:29

~

48:32

I see you, Travis. You arrived in my world

48:32

as an angel who's gonna help

48:36

me on my mission to bring this light to

48:36

these humans and save lives.

48:41

But if I'm in the corner in the fetal

48:41

position suffering,

48:44

heart closed, eyes closed, I would have

48:44

missed this and we wouldn't have saved

48:49

the lives and impacted the lives that we

48:49

are today.

48:53

Very well said. And so so when you share

48:53

your story,

48:57

~ whatever form it may be,

49:00

what's the most important thing you hope

49:00

people take away about Anthony beyond

49:05

the the circumstances of his death?

49:14

It was

49:17

He's just man, Anthony lived every moment

49:17

and lived

49:23

Yeah,

49:23

for every human being

49:25

in that moment with him. He's he's a

49:25

special,

49:29

special soul. And I'm grateful for every

49:29

second of those sixteen

49:30

Yeah.

49:33

and a half years and for the work that

49:33

he's doing now on the other side.

49:38

~ yeah,

49:41

thank you. I don't think I've ever been

49:41

asked that question in that way.

49:46

Thank thanks for answering it.

49:49

Bet.

49:52

Because sometimes I ask these questions

49:52

like this is gonna be a hard one to ask,

49:56

but I wanna I'm curious, so

49:59

Well, so th this is where the

49:59

vulnerability as a superpower lies.

50:01

It comes out, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

50:03

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, like it it

50:03

doesn't just

50:04

Comes right back to it. Full circle.

50:07

yeah, full circle, full circle,

50:09

precisely like vulnerability as a

50:09

superpower is not something I came up for

50:14

Yeah.

50:15

It it's

50:15

through it's through these questions and

50:15

and and courageously giving you an

50:18

We want to do something. ~

50:22

answer and and also for you to hold the

50:22

space,

50:25

Mm-hmm.

50:25

right? 'Cause

50:26

Can be very uncomfortable for you andor

50:26

listeners to or or viewers to to see me

50:33

but it's important for me. I don't know if

50:33

you've noticed,

50:35

And just

50:35

and it doesn't matter if you have or not,

50:36

but I don't wipe

50:38

away my tears. I'm not, I'm not trying to

50:40

Yeah.

50:41

get rid of what I'm experiencing or

50:41

minimizing it.

50:45

It is actually the the physiological

50:45

experience that I was sharing

50:50

of with you before that.

50:52

Yeah.

50:52

I'm sharing in this way and I'm feeling a

50:52

deep connection with you

50:55

and it's it's creating a physiological

50:55

effect and the tears are cooling

51:00

on my skin and it's also releasing what I

51:00

need to so

51:06

I can exhale and keep going.

51:09

And I I I I love it. I love that it's not

51:09

very many people that

51:14

are willing to come on, talk to somebody

51:14

they've never talked to,

51:19

and actually show that emotion.

51:22

And I I there's

51:28

th I really have no words for it.

51:30

Because I think I think just you going

51:30

around and being

51:35

so open is a fantastic thing and I I think

51:35

more people

51:41

need to hear people like be as vulnerable

51:41

as you are.

51:49

Well, I want to acknowledge you too.

51:50

I receive what you're saying. I I receive

51:50

it in every fiber of my being.

51:54

And I want to acknowledge you too,

51:55

because

51:55

I don't use it

51:56

vulnerably showing up and asking people

51:56

you don't know these very difficult crest

52:01

questions and creating this safe space and

52:01

this room and community

52:02

I mean

52:06

where more people can understand that that

52:06

this this is how it's supposed to be.

52:13

This is how it was before.

52:15

all this conditioning and generational

52:15

conditioning that somehow we've weeded

52:16

And

52:22

out these

52:23

most connective human experiences.

52:25

So I wanna acknowledge you for showing up

52:25

and creating this space

52:28

Well and to kinda

52:30

and being vulnerable so that we can model

52:30

for people what's really actually

52:36

possible.

52:38

add to that, it's I feel that society

52:43

has ruined people to a sense because I was

52:43

taught that

52:49

we don't talk about this stuff.

52:54

So it's and it's I think that in it for

52:54

itself is shameful.

53:01

It is and we are we're we're changing

53:01

that.

53:03

We are we are unwinding that

53:07

one conversation at a time.

53:10

Yep, exactly. And so ~ where where can

53:10

people find you?

53:18

Yeah, so for me, ~ on any of the socials

53:18

at Neil Tricherico,

53:23

so Instagram, YouTube, Facebook at Neil

53:23

Tricherico,

53:28

or on my website, Neiltricarico.com,

53:31

drop me a DM or send me an email.

53:34

I would love to hear if anything we shared

53:34

with you today impacted you and if so,

53:40

how and if I could support you in any way.

53:43

~ please find me in any of those.

53:47

avenues I'd love to to connect with you

53:47

and hear your story.

53:52

Perfect. And the last thing here is we've

53:52

covered a lot of ground tonight.

53:57

Is there anything you'd like to bring up

53:57

that we did not discuss?

54:03

~

54:05

the only thing I would share, maybe that

54:05

we haven't discussed is

54:12

my my experience with this sort of

54:12

spectrum of emotion,

54:18

all right. So before Anthony's passing,

54:22

It's just

54:22

~ I I was a I a really outgoing guy.

54:27

I mean one of my best friends described me

54:27

as someone who squeezes every ounce

54:32

of joy, love and fun out of an experience.

54:35

Right. So if my threshold for joy and

54:35

connection is over here,

54:39

my my

54:42

My floor for pain and adversity was here.

54:45

I mean, you know, I I don't I don't know.

54:48

I mean, I my parents separated for a

54:48

couple of years in high school.

54:51

~ expensive system.

54:52

I lost my best friend to cancer in my 30s,

54:55

but I didn't have a lot of adversity.

54:57

I mean, navigating Anthony's ~ autism was

54:57

was challenging.

55:02

But but point being is threshold for pain

55:02

here,

55:04

threshold for joy here. This was my

55:04

spectrum,

55:08

right? Now

55:10

This pain that I've felt, this trauma,

55:12

I mean, it the level, I I I even if I

55:12

tried to describe it to you,

55:17

you I you would it would never land in the

55:17

way it has for me.

55:20

So take your breath away.

55:23

Une extraordinary levels of pain and

55:23

trauma.

55:27

But what happens is for many people is

55:27

their their whole spectrum shifts here.

55:33

So now you've got the depth of pain,

55:35

and your joy maybe is at baseline.

55:39

Well, this is suffering. This is

55:39

suffering.

55:43

Life will never be the same because I've

55:43

had this loss,

55:46

and so I can only play in here.

55:48

Well, that's reasonable and possible,

55:52

I don't know.

55:54

but so

55:54

too is this, where you have this loss,

55:58

only the floor changes. Now what happens?

56:01

You've got unimaginable levels of pain and

56:01

suffering and heartache,

56:05

but also equal and opposite levels of.

56:08

Joy, connection, and intimacy.

56:10

It makes for such a rich, juicy spectrum

56:10

of experience.

56:16

And so that is what post-traumatic growth

56:16

looks like

56:21

is that expansion. And then expansion,

56:24

now you can connect with human beings

56:24

anywhere in this spectrum,

56:24

No,

56:27

not in this limited space. And then the

56:27

last thing I would share,

56:31

sorry, I'm just trying to pack it in,

56:32

you're you're totally good.

56:32

is

56:34

all right, one of the ~ things that I'd

56:34

like to to

56:38

Relate with but also demystify is this

56:38

idea that grief is just ~ love that

56:45

has no place to go. I do agree that grief

56:45

is a form of love.

56:50

And yes, technically I can't place that

56:50

love physically into my son like I used

56:57

I can't hug him, I can't kiss him,

56:59

I can't

56:59

Yeah.

57:01

show him physically my love, but I could

57:01

love him in heaven.

57:07

Yeah,

57:07

I could love him through my connection.

57:09

But

57:10

why through this idea of closure or loss

57:10

or that we're going to heal from this

57:15

grief? Why would we ever want to get rid

57:15

of that love?

57:15

Yeah, this is

57:18

You're a parent, the capacity of love that

57:18

we have for our children.

57:22

Okay, well, there's plenty of places for

57:22

it to go.

57:28

You know, show me showing

57:30

up for these podcasts, helping another

57:30

person.

57:32

So, yes, grief is love that.

57:36

Has no place to go physically in terms of

57:36

the person you had it for,

57:39

but there's untold number of places that

57:39

you could place that love,

57:42

But yeah,

57:45

and there's nothing

57:46

you could do that would honor the legacy

57:46

of the one you've lost more than

57:53

placing that love everywhere as opposed to

57:53

stifling it or holding on

58:00

to it or trying to get rid of it.

58:01

And

58:03

Those are the only couple of things I

58:03

could think of.

58:05

Otherwise I think, my gosh, what a

58:05

powerful conversation.

58:08

I really love the you know the the joy the

58:08

spectrum

58:13

of joy and the you that you shared right

58:13

there because it's that's powerful.

58:18

Really. It's and it's

58:21

a hard thing to do and I I think like the

58:21

the joint pain thing it's honestly where

58:26

your mind is and how your mindset is like

58:26

that's just the the first thing that came

58:32

to my mind. It's really powerful.

58:38

Well, Neil, I wanna thank you for coming

58:38

on and spending an hour with me.

58:43

I really admire ~ your vulnerability.

58:48

I admire what you're doing for these these

58:48

teenagers and empowering them

58:53

to find these safe spaces because I think

58:53

we need more of that.

58:57

It's it's very important be w we have this

58:57

whole generation that's

59:05

we're losing s so quickly.

59:07

because the mental health either that's

59:07

not talked about or

59:11

the resources aren't available.

59:15

So I appreciate you coming on and being

59:15

vulnerable and speaking to me.

59:21

I appreciate

59:21

you having me, Travis. Thank you.

59:23

It's been an honor.

59:24

And

59:26

and to all those listening, ~ thank you so

59:26

much.

59:29

Please leave us a five-star review and

59:29

follow us.

59:34

Thanks again until next time.