Breaking Family Cycles: Deborah Moffatt on Healing Childhood Trauma & Dysfunction

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Hello and welcome to Overcome a Mental Health Podcast.

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I am your host, Travis White.

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This is a place for you to share your mental health stories.

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I'm very excited for tonight's guest.

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I'm speaking with Deborah Moffitt.

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Deborah is an author, speaker, and the host of the Healing Version Podcast.

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Deborah, welcome to the show.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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I pronounce my name Deborah.

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ah It's all good.

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It's all good.

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It's all good.

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Believe it or not, my family actually calls me Deborah because my mom's name is Deborah,

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but she spells it D-E-B-R-A.

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So they just call me little Deborah.

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I'm like, it's actually Deborah.

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But yeah, it's all good.

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See, I was able to share that story.

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So how are you today?

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I am doing great.

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So excited for the conversation we're about to have.

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um Without wasting any time, I'm just going to let you tell the audience about your

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journey.

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All right, so growing up, I had a pretty unstable childhood, primarily with my mom.

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She moved us around a lot.

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I was born and raised in St.

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Louis, Missouri, and probably about first grade, she moved us to Tennessee.

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Then we came back here really briefly to St.

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Louis and then we went back there.

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I stayed there all the way through ninth grade, but through those years we went from this

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place to that place.

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She had a drug addiction, so she was not stable in our living arrangements at all.

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So I never thought about it as a child.

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I was just like, know, whatever, I'm going to a new school, know, do this, do that.

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It wasn't until I came back here in the ninth grade that I actually started having some

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type of stability.

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But there was a lot of things going on internally that I didn't know at the time, such as

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abandonment issues, looking for validation, people pleasing, just wanting to feel wanted

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and belong somewhere.

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So I actually started working like my sophomore year.

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By the end of my junior year, I was pregnant.

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I had my oldest son who is 20.

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I had him my senior year.

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Still graduated, walked across the stage with a six month old.

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So that if I had to think back on one of my earlier accomplishments or something I'm proud

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of that I'm very proud of because a lot of people.

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doubted me.

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They were like, you're not going to graduate.

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you had a baby.

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You might as well just drop out and get your GED or start working.

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I'm like, I want a high school diploma.

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And no shade to people who have GEDs.

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Nothing wrong with having a GED.

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It's just not what I desired.

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I worked hard all these years.

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Up until I got pregnant or up until I had him, say I was an AB honor roll.

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And I'm like, I didn't work this hard just to

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drop out and it wasn't like I was falling behind or anything.

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So I'm like, no, I'm going to go to school pregnant.

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I'm going to do my homeschooling.

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And then after I have him, I'm going back to high school and finish.

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So I'm very proud of that.

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And I started working, working and I had my daughter probably a year and a half later and

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then not even six weeks of being pregnant with her.

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got pregnant with my

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almost will be next week, he'll be 18.

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So had him, had a very abusive relationship with their dad, broke free of that, didn't

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understand the scars and everything that that left.

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And I eventually got into church and I started going to church and I would say that

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church,

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taught me some life skills.

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I will be honest and say when it comes to like spirituality and having faith in, I didn't

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get that at church.

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I was pretty much at church as like a cover up and a band aid for everybody to be like,

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oh, she's in church.

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So she's getting our lives together.

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The whole time I'm just like screaming, what am I doing here on the inside?

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But I eventually stopped going to church, but then I started going down this downward

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spiral.

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because shortly after I became pregnant, lost a baby, and that took me through this

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grieving process where I was going through a lot, a lot of grief.

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And I tell people, when you're grieving, be careful who you latch onto, because I ended up

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latching onto a guy who meant me no good.

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But it was somebody there at the time.

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I didn't have anybody.

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was somebody to talk to.

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He pretended like he cared.

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So carried on that relationship and that was a very verbally abusive relationship.

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It was never any physical with him.

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It was just always verbal.

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was, he reminded me of how nobody ever want me because I have kids and you'll never be

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anything and I would help you do this, but you don't listen to me.

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Very controlling, just horrible, horrible.

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So I was just like, piling on like a lot of like, everything was just piling on.

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I never like really sat down and thought about like, what is going on with me?

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Like, why do I, like, it was just one trauma, one thing after another.

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Eventually, I'm gonna say probably about three years ago, I met a guy and he showed me all

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the things I've never seen in a relationship that I've never gotten from a father.

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He was a protector.

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He was a great lover.

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He was just like everything that I've never seen in a man.

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And so quite naturally I got latched on to him.

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I was just like, like this is it.

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This is, you not knowing that it was an abandonment thing.

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was just, it was something that the little girl in me was like wanting.

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So when he started like pulling his energy away, it triggered me.

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And

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all the relationships before once they start moving their energy, just would like, all

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right, bye, kudos, see you later.

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But for him, I could not, I couldn't shake him.

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I was just like, what's going on?

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So that sent me into my journey of healing, because I had to figure out what was so

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special about this man that I could not let him go.

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So I started journaling, I started going to therapy.

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And I found out that there was some deep rooted abandonment issues.

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so, like I said, I started the therapy thing.

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started searching within journaling helped me a lot, a whole, whole lot being able to

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write down my feelings and how, and going back and seeing what I grew from.

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I think that's one of the most important things about journaling, being able to look back

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on those pages and to be like, what?

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was.

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That's how I was feeling at that time.

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So, and it also gives you like that, that you need to keep going.

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Cause it's like, okay, so if I'm not there anymore, I gotta be growing.

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Cause a lot of times we don't see our growth.

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We don't, you know, and we don't appreciate it.

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We don't say, cause stop and take a deep breath and like, I'm living my prayers.

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I'm living in everything that I've manifested, all the things that I said I wanted to do.

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Like it's happening right before me.

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We're so focused on the future and like what's to come and what we'll be doing.

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so I urge you, whoever you are listening, take a stop, look around and appreciate like

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what you're in.

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Because I can say the house I live in, the car I live in, the car I drive, the home I'm

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in, I manifested these things.

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These are things I said, okay, this is what I want.

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I want to eventually have this type of vehicle.

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I want to live in this house.

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want this many bedrooms, this many bathrooms, and I'm living in it.

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So, hey, I urge you to just appreciate the now, because one thing about it, and two for

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sure, you'll never get this second back ever again.

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So, journey through healing and finding out why...

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could not shake this man and why I was so attached led me into, partially led me into my

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podcast.

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I'll have to give credit to this live stream that I used to have a show on.

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It was a relationship show and I used to come with scenarios and we used to talk about

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like different relationship things and the people that I was talking to, I realized.

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eventually that instead of talking about being in relationships, we needed to be talking

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about healing and going to therapy.

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Cause I'm like, yeah, a lot of people who just shouldn't be in relationships.

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Cause the things that y'all like the way that the way you think is just, I'm not going to

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say it's wrong, but it's, it's just going to set you up for continuous failed

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relationship.

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Cause you don't trust anybody.

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You're automatically putting everybody in the same boat.

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And it's like,

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you got some healing to do, you can't do that, gotta, know, everybody's not the same.

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We like to say they are, they're not.

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So, my podcast, the Healing Version podcast, it is a mental health podcast.

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It's basically my journal.

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If you listen, I tell all my business.

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So when people meet me and I'm like, they wanna ask me these questions, I'm like.

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I'll tell you a little bit, but you should go listen to my podcast.

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You will find out all you need to know.

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But I'm just, I've used it as a moment of transparency.

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I feel that being transparent and being open and just being honest is going to help so

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many other people heal.

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So I urge people to come on and tell their stories.

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I don't push anybody.

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Like if you want to, you are welcome.

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And I have a...

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Interview segment on my show.

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It's called versions of healing.

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So it's like a spin-off so I have the healing version, which is the podcast and all of

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your stories are the versions of your healing and I've had some pretty dope people come on

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and and tell all of their things and things they've been through and All the services and

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things that they provide.

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So it's been a really really dope journey and I am

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I'm so excited about the future and what's to come.

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And it's so cool.

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And isn't it awesome though to like do this and be able to hear all the different stories.

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And you realize that like everybody has a story.

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And it's just so cool like to hear everybody's journey and what they're going through.

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Yes, yes, a lot of like, wow, like dang, I ain't went through nothing.

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When I was having a stuff, I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm so sorry.

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It's, you know, it's amazing to see so many people overcoming or going through and getting

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through the things that they've been through.

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Yeah, I totally agree with you.

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It's like, cause when I started doing this, I didn't realize like how many people would

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actually want to open up and tell their story.

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But there's quite a few.

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yeah, there is a lot of people.

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I'm, Pied Match has been a blessing.

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The people that I've come in contact with just from Pied Match has been amazing.

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The survival stories, the stories of just, y'all listen, listen to versions of Hilla.

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Yes, and I have interviews stacked up for the rest of the year.

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That's just how like.

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have any people in the interview.

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right there with you.

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I'm right there with you.

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It's a blessing and almost a curse at the same time because it's like, I work full time.

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I don't know how to do this.

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Yes, I work full time as well, so and I'm a mom of five so I'm like I have to find time to

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edit and they're always like, where's my episode dropping up?

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I'll be in touch.

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I'll be in touch.

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I promise to let you know when it drops.

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Yes.

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So I have three kids, I understand.

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And they're three young kids, very young kids.

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it's just the young kids that make it very difficult to do anything I want to do.

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But on that note, I do have a question, and that's actually a good kind of opening to it.

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How has becoming a mother influenced the way you view cycles of dysfunction and

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accountability?

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So.

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It's funny because my older kids are always like on me about this because now I'm a more

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wiser and more patient mom.

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So I have seven year old twins.

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So they are not getting the same mom that my oldest three children got.

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So they're always like, they get away with everything.

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And it's like, no, I'm just, I just, know better now.

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So when you know better, you do better.

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So.

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Now, like with the whole dysfunction thing, I'm completely transparent and honest with

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them when it comes to dysfunction.

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Like you can have relationships with people from a distance.

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If you have somebody and their dysfunction is messing with your way of life or causing you

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to have to continue to put boundaries in place, you gotta keep telling people.

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And if it's a burden on you, you don't

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have to have a relationship with that person.

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I don't care who they are, like a parent, cousin, I don't care.

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You don't have to have a relationship.

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So my biggest thing with them when it comes to dysfunction is boundaries.

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Like know when to stay and when to walk away.

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And as far as accountability, I definitely allow them to hold me accountable.

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And I feel like that is my stamp of accountability because I know me when I'm growing up,

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you couldn't tell adults like if they were.

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trying to think how to say this and not sound disrespectful.

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Like if they were out of line or if they lied about something, you couldn't call them out

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on it.

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And I allow my kids to call me out on things.

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So if I tell you that we're going to do something, I'm going to do something for you and I

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don't do it, you are allowed to say, hey, you said we would do X, Y, Z and we didn't.

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And now it's up to me to give you an explanation why we didn't do it, when we'll do it,

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because I don't think it's fair because they're a child that you can just do any and

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everything.

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And they just, you just got to deal with it because you're a kid and I'm an adult and

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you're going to deal with it.

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I feel like that has a lot to do with like the anxiety of our generation and how we, how

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we speak and how we deal with people and you know, how we are, how we are.

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I'm just, I'll say this

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time and time again I'm so proud to see like so many of us like standing up and like yeah

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we're gonna end this right now.

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I'm healing from this I don't want my kids to have to deal with the same things that we

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dealt with so and definitely

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The accountability thing, it sticks out to me, it's huge because I also have to walk my

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life in an accountable way as well.

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Because I can't be, like they hear my podcast, they listen to my podcast, especially my

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seven year old.

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So like, I was watching some movie and it was like some violence and I was like, you can't

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watch this, you talk about healing on your podcast.

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And I'm like, I can watch when I wanna watch, get out of my room.

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So it's like a lot of the things that I tell people to do like I'm always talking about

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self-care and taking time for yourself and like pulling away from these nine to fives

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because if you were to leave this earth tomorrow they will replace you the same day if you

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if they decide they wanted to get rid of you sometimes they'll bring your replacement in

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and have you train them before they even get rid of you so

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We gotta stop being so faithful to these nine to fives.

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So I pull back and I do my self care.

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If I need a mental health day, I'm taking my mental health day.

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So I tell my audience the same thing, like unplug, relax, don't do no homework, don't do

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no work, just, you know, so I hold myself accountable and also doing the things that I'm

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telling other people to do.

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Cause you know, who would I be to say, do this and I'm not doing it.

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exactly.

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And there's one thing that really really stuck out to me.

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In that, what you just said, I really liked what you said about basically if there's

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somebody that's bringing negativity into your world, get rid of them, you don't need that.

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Like, cut that tie.

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And it's like, and it does make it hard when it's But it's...

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And I agree though, I like, I also like what you said about being accountable to your

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children.

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Because it's like, if we're not teach, if we're gonna hold them accountable, I think that

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they should be on the same place to have a voice with us as their parents.

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Basically call you out on stuff that you're doing as well.

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Right, and I would say they can, like, it can be done in a respectful manner.

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It's done in my house in a respectful manner.

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Like, I'll do something and my daughter, she'll be like, she'll be like, mama, this, I

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don't think that's right.

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You should, she told me one day, she was like, I think you should apologize.

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I was like, you think I should apologize?

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She was like, yeah, I don't think that was, I think you were in the wrong.

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And I'm like, I was wrong.

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And I called the person back and I apologized.

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I'm like, so it's like, they are my world.

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I'm around them like more than I'm around anybody else.

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So if I can't allow them to hold me accountable, that mean I could just run around, know,

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and just do what I want to do.

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And I just, don't want to do that.

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want them to also be able to know that they can talk to me about anything that builds a

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bridge, you know, that helps with our relationship too, that they can, they know they can

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talk to me.

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Yeah, and I think that's important because I think the voice of a child matters.

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And my, so my daughter, she's five and she's really, really sassy right now.

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So we're still working on that part of, okay, you can say that in a respectful way.

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You don't have to yell at me when you call me out on something or when you don't agree

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with something.

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And then I've learned that I have to watch my words because...

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Yeah.

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we were we were camping this last weekend and she what she she called me out on something

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and she turned around says dad do you want a butt kicking and i'll i'm like what she's

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like well you've said it i'm like yeah maybe i shouldn't say that so she's just using

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she's just using my words against me

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yeah, this generation is, ooh, yeah, they good for flipping.

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They good for flipping your words on you.

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Which you said it, which you did it.

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And it's like, sometimes I was like, look, I can do it.

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Like, you can't do everything I do, and you're not gonna do everything I do.

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So, now I'll use better words, but you know, some of the stuff, I'm gonna need you to pump

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your brakes on.

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Yep.

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it's the little ones, my seven year olds is something else.

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Yeah, I mean, there are lots of fun.

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I can't like complain because I love my kids.

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Yeah, they keep me on my toes, definitely.

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Definitely.

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personally need that.

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I need somebody there to like, and if you want something, somebody to be honest, like flat

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out honest, leave it up to a five year old or a three year old.

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Yeah, yeah, they'll definitely be honest with you.

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Alright, so I have another question here for you.

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For someone who grew up in a toxic household, where does a healing journey realistically

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begin?

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when you start being honest with yourself in the situation, because a lot of times we'll

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like, we block out those situations and we just keep going on and on and on.

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You have to actually face them and be honest.

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And that can happen at whatever age.

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That happened for me, what, three or four years ago when I sat down and I was honest with

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myself.

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And that's when true healing begins.

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Yeah, it's, and that's a very strong word.

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think one key word there is honest because it's like my, I look back at myself and for

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years, like I didn't admit that I have problems that I wasn't being honest with myself.

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I don't think my true healing journey started until this last year.

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Hmm.

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So, I...

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I'm being completely honest.

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It's like...

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I love everything that you're saying, by the way.

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It's like, it's very relatable.

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this too.

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We do fall and we stumble.

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Like once you start on this journey, it's not just like rainbows and peaches and you're

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just running down this beautiful railroad and you're just having just, you're picking

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these flowers and you're healing and everything's just working out.

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It's ugly.

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It's a really ugly journey.

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It's a lot of crying and a lot

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of admitting things that you probably thought you would never admit and a lot of turning

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that mirror around and looking in the mirror and saying, man, I'm jacked up and

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consciously making a change and being honest, being honest and cutting off people, places

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and things that don't serve a purpose in your life.

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I think that's where a lot of people like hit that stumbling block because they want to

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hold on to people.

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Well, that's my so and so.

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I don't want to let them go.

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Well, I've been working here for 25 years and I've never gotten a raise, but I love the

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people I work for and I love what I do.

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No, no.

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A lot of times we know we need to get out of situations and it's just the comfortability.

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So with that being said, healing is not a comfortable place.

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It's not.

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Some days I just be like, I am.

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I don't want to do nothing.

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don't feel like doing anything.

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Don't talk to me.

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I'm not recording.

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I don't even know if I want to do this podcast anymore.

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Yeah, I get the same way.

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I actually got that today.

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We're coming off a three day weekend for Labor Day.

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today I was like, I've had a little bit of a cold, but nothing major.

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And so today I woke up with a migraine.

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And sometimes I know migraines are brought on by me being anxious.

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So I ended up taking the day off because it's like...

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You know what?

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I don't feel like going into work today.

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I need a date to myself.

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No, no, they don't know that I did that that way, but I figured they're not going to

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listen to my podcast, so it doesn't matter.

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If they listen to mine, I'm like, you know what?

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This will make sure you listen to the ads.

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So, from your experience, what are the biggest myths about healing from family trauma that

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you'd like to debunk?

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Biggest myths about family trauma?

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That there isn't any.

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that there's no trauma that you that that's just how it is that so and so they've been

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like that forever.

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A lot of the dysfunction in our families is rolled off as being normal and it's not and

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when you get to a space where you are healing you know that it's not normal and you're

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with yourself and with everybody around you.

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But then you're gonna be the outcast and then they ain't gonna like you.

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So be prepared for that as well.

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But I don't care.

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I like to sit by myself.

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That's where I get all my good thoughts.

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And I ain't got people talking nonsense.

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But myths is that it doesn't exist.

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I would have to say that's the biggest one, that it's normal.

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And it's just how it is.

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you know, like the generations before us, they bask in that.

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You know, my mom, I heard some of the stuff they went through as kids.

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I'm like, what?

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What happened?

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I thought we had it bad.

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And that's another thing.

24:48

That's why I like give my mom grace because her childhood was crazy.

24:54

She had a wack childhood.

24:55

And I like to say that

25:00

A lot of the things that we went through as kids, like her children was a result of her

25:00

own childhood.

25:06

But then I also have to like, well, if I was able to decide to make a change and not carry

25:06

on the toxicity with my own children, then, you know, she could have done the same.

25:18

But, you know, I try not to place blame and point fingers.

25:22

This is, you know, the buck stops here.

25:24

um So.

25:27

It is what it is.

25:28

Yeah, exactly.

25:29

There's just those things you can't change, And it's like, and kind of speaking off the

25:29

place you blame, every once in a while, like, I'll think of like some negative trait that

25:40

I've figured out within myself and I'll turn around to my wife and I'll be like, okay,

25:40

well, now I have to figure out, that come from my dad's side or my mom's side?

25:48

Like, where did I get this from?

25:49

you

25:52

Like, it's the same thing, not that it matters anymore because...

25:56

Yeah, well I'm not gonna lie, get angry sometimes when it comes to my parents.

26:00

I'm just like, man, like if you guys would have been like, I don't wanna say better,

26:00

because I feel like at the end of the day, my mom did the best she could for the capacity

26:12

of what she had.

26:17

Do I feel like she could have done better?

26:18

Yes, but like, I don't know.

26:22

I try to curse and slack, but I'm just like, oh my goodness.

26:27

And then I have those days where I'm just like, oh, it's not your fault.

26:29

But I do have my days where I'm like, y'all jacked me up.

26:34

And then y'all like, because it's still a battle with even trying to break a lot of things

26:34

for my children and not be this toxic parent.

26:44

I'll find myself yelling, I'm like, oh my god, I just yelled at them.

26:48

And then I'll.

26:49

have to apologize, I'm so sorry for yelling, I shouldn't have yelled.

26:56

It's just, you just have to be intentional, but you will, you will stumble, you will fall,

26:56

and you're gonna pick yourself up, and then the next time you're gonna do better, you're

27:06

gonna stumble again, because it is a healing process.

27:09

That's why my podcast is not the healed version, it's the healing version, because it is a

27:09

ongoing...

27:16

process you'll get triggered you'll have something and you'll be like You you was

27:16

intentional you prayed about it and you thought you got over it until that thing circled

27:27

back around you have to face it again and now you trigger it and now I'm like I Didn't

27:27

even get over it.

27:34

It's still like I thought I conquered that thing so It's a process

27:40

it definitely is.

27:42

And sometimes it just seems like never ending.

27:45

It's like, you you get like two baby steps and you're like, oh, I'm doing, I'm doing

27:45

better now.

27:50

I'm doing better.

27:51

And then all of a sudden something happens that you is out of your control and you're

27:51

like, okay, I'm not doing so well anymore.

27:57

I do it so well.

27:59

I just want to stay in the bed some days.

28:01

It's like, it's it's a, it's a process, but you can definitely, if I can do it, you can do

28:01

it.

28:08

You can do it if I can, cause yeah.

28:12

Yeah, it's, and I'm right there with you.

28:14

like, you know what?

28:15

Like I never thought I'd come this far within a year compared to like where I was last

28:15

year, like the different kind of therapy methods that I've used to, whether it's

28:26

controlling anger, anxiety or depression.

28:28

Like it's, but then it's like just a lot of ups and downs, but I can still tell you that

28:28

the little things I have problems with, but

28:40

In the end, I like to tell my kids that we're all human.

28:43

make mistakes.

28:44

Mommy and daddy are human too.

28:46

We're not always going to be perfect, but we're going to try to do our best for you.

28:51

Yes, yep, that's all we can do.

28:55

That's it, and that's all.

28:58

So what advice would you give parents who want to harmful cycles for continuing in their

28:58

own families?

29:08

I would first of all, you would want to make sure that you have a good space where like

29:08

the children can be honest because you may be doing something that you think is not

29:20

harmful and that it's okay.

29:22

You know, I've been doing this forever and my mama did and her mama did it and whole time

29:22

it's just, it's a toxic thing and the kids don't like it and you probably shouldn't be

29:32

doing it.

29:32

So allow, allow the kids to speak.

29:36

and listen, because a lot of times we'll let them speak with me and we are out and just

29:36

say, I'm grown, I do what I want to do.

29:43

No, it's okay.

29:47

Just make sure that they know that it's a space of respect, but you want to also give that

29:47

as well to them, make them feel like what they're saying is important.

29:59

And then just taking an honest look at yourself, going back and searching within your

29:59

childhood.

30:05

What are some things that happened and that you're carrying on that is a continuous cycle?

30:13

just, excuse me, journaling.

30:17

I love the journal.

30:18

I love writing stuff down.

30:19

I write everything down.

30:22

have a...

30:24

notebook right here.

30:25

I'm just, that's just right.

30:26

So, but I think that the biggest thing is the relationship with the kids and just knowing

30:26

like what is acceptable and what's not acceptable.

30:35

And that's just going to come with communication.

30:39

very well said.

30:43

It's like...

30:47

Like it's, I'm trying to think of how to say it.

30:49

have it in the thought of my mind, but I think to our five year old and how we're trying

30:49

to get her to, cause like she'll say whatever, but it's like just trying to get her to be

31:01

as open as she possibly can sometimes is a difficult thing.

31:05

do you, what advice do you give parents that are trying to get their child to,

31:14

feel like it's okay to speak, maybe in the past they haven't been able to speak openly,

31:14

but when they're trying to get to that point where their child feels comfortable and like

31:21

it's a safe space, how do you think parents start to do that?

31:26

So it has to actually be a safe space.

31:29

So for me, I just like, I think it's my honesty and how transparent I am with them.

31:35

It's lady crazy.

31:38

We get to, you know, I'm just like with my older kids, like I've been talking to them,

31:38

like my daughter, I have one daughter and I've been talking to her about girl stuff and

31:48

about boys since she was old enough to understand.

31:51

As soon as she was old enough to understand, I just started talking to her and she was

31:51

just, you know, listening.

31:57

But now she's 18, almost 19.

32:00

And all of that stuff that I told her, I see it blossoming.

32:05

It's just it's there and it's so beautiful.

32:07

And I just listen to her and I'm just like, my little Prodigy, I taught her so well.

32:12

So a lot of times we don't think the kids are listening.

32:15

They are.

32:16

They're listening.

32:17

The best thing you can do is just like, just talk to them, just create a space where it

32:17

might just be you doing a lot of the talking, but they're listening.

32:27

So even if they don't talk back now, it's okay.

32:31

Just instill in them, give them the affirmations, tell them all the things you want them

32:31

to know as they grow up listening.

32:40

So that's what I do now.

32:42

Now this new generation of kids.

32:45

they are giving it back quicker.

32:47

And for like my older kids, they started giving it back as teenagers.

32:50

The seven year olds, I tell them stuff like they were like, mama, he not respecting my

32:50

boundaries.

32:57

Like, what do you mean?

32:58

He not respect your boundaries?

33:00

Well, he came over and he took my stuff.

33:03

Like they, they listening to it.

33:05

They are already talking about boundaries and the kids at school and.

33:10

Like I pushed the boy at school and you got in trouble for pushing the boy.

33:13

Why?

33:14

Because I told him to get back and he was in my personal space.

33:19

Like, you know, it's a gift and a curse.

33:21

I'm over here teaching them about their boundaries and personal space and they going to

33:21

school ready to fight because somebody's standing too close.

33:27

So they're listening.

33:29

Just talk to them.

33:32

They're little sponges.

33:33

They're just soaking it all in.

33:35

Yeah, I learned that the hard way because I'm why sometimes things come out of my mouth.

33:43

I think that I don't want my kids to hear here.

33:46

They're in the other room.

33:47

I don't think they're like listening.

33:49

The next day they repeat it.

33:50

was like, and I always get called out on it, which my wife should call me out on it.

33:55

Like I'm not saying no, just don't tell me anything about it.

33:58

Like I don't want to hear it because I do.

34:00

want to.

34:01

She's like, yeah, you probably shouldn't say this anymore.

34:05

I'm like, yeah, I probably shouldn't.

34:09

They are sponges.

34:10

Yup, they'll soak it up and spit it out.

34:12

They're listening.

34:13

They are definitely listening.

34:16

that is for sure.

34:19

Sometimes too much.

34:21

Yes, definitely.

34:22

Especially little girls, they so grown.

34:26

And so with all your writing and some of the digging that I did for this interview, for

34:26

this podcast, I see that you're writing a nonfiction book.

34:35

Can you tell us more about that?

34:37

Yes, so it is basically on family dysfunction.

34:42

Right now I'm doing a series on family dysfunction on my podcast and I'm basically

34:42

breaking down like all of the dysfunctional things from lack of communication to gossiping

34:55

to lack of support.

34:57

We'll be talking about funeral arrangements, because I feel like that's something that a

34:57

lot of families don't want to talk about.

35:03

They don't want to talk about life insurance.

35:05

Well, we all got to go.

35:06

So we need to make sure we have life insurance.

35:08

I'm talking about emptying the nest too soon.

35:11

feel like a lot of parents.

35:15

as as the kids graduate high school, they pushing them out.

35:18

So just highlighting a lot of the dysfunctional things that I've personally seen in my

35:18

family.

35:25

And the book is really dedicated to my family, both sides, mom side and dad side.

35:30

It's a lot of toxic, I don't talk to this person, don't even know why they don't talk to

35:30

them.

35:35

Just a whole bunch of nonsense.

35:38

So I get really...

35:41

What's a good word for it?

35:43

I'm very animated on my podcast.

35:45

I don't hold back.

35:46

I'm gonna say it.

35:48

You're thinking it.

35:49

I'm gonna say it.

35:51

I was given this platform for a reason and I'm just, sick of it.

35:55

A lot of the dysfunction and the...

35:59

the backbiting and the talking about people behind their backs.

36:04

And so my novel is going to basically be an extension of that.

36:09

It's going to be more of, I'm giving the podcast is given a snippet.

36:14

The book is going to really go into details.

36:19

I'm going to tell stories in the book about different things that I've witnessed.

36:25

Child molestation.

36:26

I feel like that's a big one that nobody wants to talk about, about how the uncles and the

36:26

cousins and they touching on the kids and then they grew up and then they touching and

36:37

then it's a generational cycle that needs to be broken.

36:43

And so, with this, how does writing allow you to process and share your story differently

36:43

than podcasting?

36:52

Do feel like it's easier to write it out and tell those stories, or how does that work for

36:52

you?

37:00

So, yes, I feel like it's easier because it's like everything, I don't know, maybe they're

37:00

like the same because as it's coming, I'm like writing it on a paper, but like when I'm

37:13

doing my podcast and I'm speaking on it, I'm saying it.

37:16

I'm just, like I said, I'm not holding back.

37:19

say whatever to that.

37:22

And if I offend somebody, I had a family member call me and they said,

37:28

You said this on your podcast.

37:30

Was you talking about me?

37:31

I said, do you feel like I was talking about you?

37:33

Yeah, well, I was.

37:34

I was.

37:35

If you feel like I'm talking about you, then I am.

37:38

That's the best thing I could tell you.

37:40

I don't say names.

37:42

I'm not messy with it.

37:45

But I am when I call out a lot of the things that I see that I don't like.

37:50

with writing.

37:51

I think my writing is a little more funnier because I'm coming up with these definitions

37:51

for stuff, like my own definition, like the way I would word it.

38:02

So I think the book is gonna be funny, but I think it's gonna ruffle some feathers, but I

38:02

don't care.

38:09

Hey, you're, it's going back to the whole honesty thing, right?

38:13

Like.

38:14

Yeah.

38:15

I wouldn't be me if I didn't be honest and hold people accountable and call people out on

38:15

their meds.

38:21

Like, stop it.

38:23

Please.

38:25

Yeah, and it's like if you didn't want to be a story in my podcast, maybe you shouldn't

38:25

have started that with me.

38:31

Maybe you shouldn't have done that.

38:34

Yeah, get it together.

38:35

So just a few more questions here for you.

38:38

When people are seeking help, what are some barriers that you feel like they prevent

38:38

people from seeking help and what can we do to address them?

38:50

So I feel like a lot of times people avoid getting help because of their environment.

39:00

Because how many people have reached out for help and then they were either talked about

39:00

or just constantly told no or just made to feel like they were being a burden.

39:12

And so quite naturally, like, what's the human reaction?

39:15

Well, I'm not going to ask for help.

39:17

I'm not going to look for help.

39:18

I'm not going to ask for help.

39:19

I'm going to figure it out on my own.

39:21

And a lot of times we can't figure things out on our own.

39:24

It's not meant for us to figure out everything on our own.

39:27

So I think the biggest barrier is just not having the support that you need to get the

39:27

help that you need.

39:34

And the way to get around that is to find

39:38

people who support you because I say this all the time on my podcast.

39:43

My biggest supporters are not my family.

39:45

I don't share the blood, the same blood as my biggest supporters.

39:49

The biggest, the people who support my podcast the most, most of them I haven't even met

39:49

in real life.

39:56

So you have to find your tribe and your people who support you.

40:03

And that could be, we have the internet now.

40:06

We have this wonderful thing called the internet.

40:08

So you can go and you can search and look for different groups and you can go to my

40:08

podcast webpage.

40:16

I got some resources on there.

40:18

You can reach out to me.

40:20

I'll talk to you.

40:21

I talk to people all the time.

40:24

I'm trying to get this master's in counseling so I can get paid for what I do.

40:27

Cause I talk to a lot of people, but you, it's you, have the, resources are there.

40:32

If you need resources and you can't find them, reach out to me.

40:36

I'll, I'll put you on the right avenue, but yeah, just don't think their family is

40:36

supposed to help you out of time.

40:43

Sometimes family is your biggest haters and your biggest thumb the block because a lot of

40:43

times they, family want to see you do good.

40:52

into your right where they at or your higher.

40:55

Once you start going higher, it's like, no, I can't support you.

40:59

I'm not liking your posts.

41:00

I'm not doing this.

41:01

I'm not coming to your this.

41:02

I'm not supporting you.

41:03

And support could just be free.

41:05

But they'll stop doing it just because they don't want to see you prosper.

41:09

So go outside and find your support.

41:14

Yeah, very well said.

41:16

And sometimes like with my family, I feel it's more...

41:21

It's more that some of mental health aspect of stuff isn't talked about.

41:25

Like...

41:25

Or...

41:25

I don't know if like certain people just don't...

41:28

I don't know if it's there with certain people and they just don't talk about it or if

41:28

just...

41:33

Nobody really feels anything.

41:36

Mm-hmm.

41:37

Yeah, I think a lot of times people are so ashamed of the things that they are dabbling in

41:37

or that they've been through that they're just like, no, I don't want to talk about that.

41:48

We're not talking.

41:49

Because I have people in my family that's like, I can't listen to your podcast.

41:53

I'm like, that's OK.

41:55

When it's your time, you'll listen.

41:57

I don't push anybody.

41:59

I do tell people, if you don't want to listen,

42:02

Can you push play and turn it down so I can just get the listen?

42:05

oh

42:10

comes to podcasting, don't, it's like, no, you don't understand that one listen actually

42:10

does really good things for me.

42:16

yes, thank you.

42:20

And what would you say when it comes to writing or podcasting?

42:27

What has been like the most challenging part of it for you?

42:30

Like during this healing process?

42:34

The most challenging I would have to say is the scheduling.

42:39

When to record, especially right now in this very moment.

42:43

I go to school full time.

42:45

I have a full time job and I have a part time job.

42:48

I'm a of five.

42:49

So my goal, my ultimate goal is to do podcasting full time until I get my degree in

42:49

counseling and then I'll do podcasting part time.

43:00

But I love it.

43:01

I love, I love it, love it, love it.

43:04

It's just a matter of

43:06

finding the time to record and then edit.

43:11

so that's the, I would say that is the only challenge.

43:14

Having something to talk about, being able to talk, being able to get in front of the

43:14

camera is all easy peasy.

43:19

It's just really been a scheduling thing for me.

43:21

Yeah, that's, I thought I was busy, geez.

43:25

Well, that's crazy.

43:27

And you feel like when you talk or journal or write on your book, write your book, does it

43:27

feel more therapeutic to you?

43:35

Or does that process kind of hurt to get out there to the world?

43:41

Or those stories, I should say, not the process, do the stories hurt to get out there to

43:41

the world?

43:45

I feel like it's more therapeutic.

43:47

Right into me, it's just therapeutic anyway.

43:51

Crying is therapeutic.

43:52

If I cry and then write, we got a masterpiece.

43:57

yeah, I mean, the stories are there.

44:01

They are my stories to tell.

44:05

So I don't have any problem getting them out to the world.

44:10

Can't wait to get them out to the world.

44:14

and everybody read it, especially my family.

44:17

I hope they read it.

44:20

And looking back to your younger self, you know, maybe it's a time when your mom was

44:20

moving you around a lot or something like that.

44:30

What would you say to your younger self, like knowing what you know now?

44:38

would say.

44:42

everything is going to be okay.

44:44

And be patient and have grace with yourself.

44:53

Yeah, it's very, very well said.

44:55

enough grace.

44:58

Especially I felt like during like the healing process, it's like, no, I went through this

44:58

and I did this and I did the work and, and you fall and you trip and it's like, man, I

45:09

stumbled again.

45:10

I got triggered again.

45:11

It's like, no, have grace.

45:13

It's okay.

45:13

It's supposed to happen.

45:14

It happened for a reason.

45:16

When you get to the point and it don't trigger you.

45:19

you probably won't even see it.

45:21

Whatever it is, be invisible at that point.

45:25

I've had a huge problem with that.

45:27

It's showing myself the grace because it's like, know what, you've gone through this,

45:27

you've learned different ways to get over it.

45:35

I actually had to go back to, like I hadn't been to my therapist for some time until like

45:35

last month.

45:40

And I was like, you know what, I fell into a rut.

45:42

I don't know what to do.

45:44

Like, don't know.

45:45

I don't know.

45:47

Like I have all these methods that you taught me.

45:50

He's like, well, you're doing well.

45:52

You just need to...

45:54

know that it's a work in progress and you can show yourself grace.

45:58

can give yourself a pat on the back and say, know what, I'll get over this, I'll get

45:58

through this.

46:04

Yes, yes, that's so important.

46:07

But it's so easy to forget too.

46:09

Especially when you're in that, in the mood and going through whatever it is you're going

46:09

through.

46:16

It's like so easy to just throw out of it.

46:18

I'm like, don't, Grace, I don't care.

46:20

don't like, I'm, this is happening now.

46:23

So I just, I try to remind myself to like just stop, pause.

46:28

And I'll just like put my hand up like, it's gonna be okay.

46:31

Like it's gonna be okay.

46:32

Everything's okay.

46:33

I talk to my inner child a lot.

46:37

I talk to him, it's gonna be okay.

46:40

We're safe now.

46:44

yeah.

46:45

And I had a, I was gonna say, I had an interview a few, probably about a month ago, and

46:45

the lady said something to me that like, it's just been sticking with me.

46:58

She's like.

46:59

when you're making decisions, I think we were talking about like dating.

47:02

She was like, if you meet a man and you're dating or whatever, she's like, always think of

47:02

your inner child being right next to you and you're holding her hand.

47:12

Would you be pleased with introducing her to this person or having her around the person?

47:18

And I'm like, shoot, forget just dating.

47:21

Would I be okay with doing whatever around her, introducing her to whoever?

47:27

you know, having her around certain family members.

47:29

Like, no, you don't deserve her.

47:32

So, I don't know.

47:33

I feel like somebody needed that.

47:36

Yeah, I love all this.

47:38

that's one of my favorite things about doing this is, you know, all these stories and all

47:38

these like, I like to call them free therapy sessions for myself.

47:47

Yes, yes, yes.

47:49

I've cried in some interviews.

47:52

I'm like, how am supposed to be in a interview?

47:54

I mean, crying.

47:55

But I interview a lot of therapists and relationship coaches and life coaches and a lot

47:55

of, so I'm like, yes.

48:04

And I for I'm actually very sensitive, like overall.

48:09

And I remember this lady on here told me her story and it was, it was like, I think a lot

48:09

of stories are very hard to sit through, but this one in particular for some reason, like

48:21

really got to me.

48:22

And so like, I'm trying to ask a question.

48:24

I'm like, the tears are starting to come.

48:26

She's like, you don't have to get, you know, like it is what it is.

48:30

Like I'm over it.

48:31

And so I'm like trying to compose, get my composure so I can continue on the conversation.

48:36

And it's not always the easiest thing because it's like, well, I thought like with certain

48:36

things in my life, I had it rough, but my story doesn't, like, I didn't go through any of

48:47

the same crap you went through, but.

48:49

But then I always get brought back to like, you know what, don't compare your story to

48:49

others because yours is just as important.

48:56

Yes, yes, that's good, that's good.

49:01

Because I do that a lot.

49:02

I'm like, yeah, my story ain't got nothing on it.

49:05

Like, hey, I don't even know if I was a girl, ain't nobody beat me when I was a kid.

49:10

And I'm almost like, I had the traumas.

49:15

I was affected by those certain things.

49:19

So definitely no comparing the stories.

49:24

One, this is a generalized question that I ask every guest that comes on the show.

49:28

What would you say is the biggest stigma when it comes to mental health?

49:35

Hmm.

49:41

I feel like that there's like, it's kind of like a trendy thing now.

49:47

It's like, mental health.

49:50

And the fact that people don't know mental health and mental illness.

49:55

It's like, everything's not mental health.

49:57

Some of it's mental illness.

49:59

you

50:00

But yeah, I think a lot of people are throwing a lot of things around about mental health

50:00

that may not be true or they just want to be part of the conversation.

50:12

It's like, this is a real thing.

50:14

People are actually affected.

50:16

There's real life things that's happening.

50:19

Yeah.

50:22

love it.

50:22

I've never received like, I mean there's some variations of the same thing, but like

50:22

everybody has their own opinion of it and I love all of them.

50:31

They're so, it's like interesting to hear the different opinions of what that is.

50:35

So, where can people find you?

50:40

So my website just dropped in July.

50:45

It is thehillenversion.com.

50:49

I'm also on Instagram and Facebook.

50:53

I have YouTube and the Hillenversion podcast is on all major podcast platforms, Spotify,

50:53

Amazon, iHeartRadio, you name it, you can find it.

51:04

But if you go to the website, thehillenversion.com, you can find

51:07

the links to everything.

51:10

And I will be putting those links in my show notes as well when I release.

51:14

The last question here, we covered a lot of topics in this episode.

51:22

Is there anything that you'd like to bring up that we did not discuss?

51:28

No, I think we discussed everything.

51:31

I'll just leave the people with this.

51:34

Have grace, have grace, have grace.

51:38

And just remember that your healing journey is not the next person.

51:42

So don't let anybody tell you what you should be doing.

51:47

There's no book, there's no manual to tell you, okay, on day three, this is what you

51:47

should be doing on your healing version, I mean, your healing journey.

51:56

Your healing journey is your own individual journey.

51:58

It's not like anybody else's, it is yours.

52:02

And just, I can't stress this enough, don't let anybody tell you what you should or

52:02

shouldn't be doing during your healing.

52:12

said and it's like I want to say like if you have somebody that's telling you how you

52:12

should be on your healing journey like I don't think you should be talking to that person

52:22

about healing it's like it's different for everybody

52:25

But a lot of people are out here selling healing.

52:28

So that's why.

52:29

That's another reason I'm stressing that because a lot of people are selling manuals or

52:29

they have courses and that's why I do what I do.

52:37

That's why I'm like, I'm just telling you what I'm going through.

52:40

Maybe you are too, and maybe you can relate and maybe you want to come tell me, you know,

52:40

want to talk about it.

52:44

I don't have any courses or anything to sell you to get you healed by the 30th of this

52:44

month.

52:51

Like I don't have that.

52:52

I have some real life transparency and some honest

52:57

Thanks for you.

53:02

Thank you so much for coming on the show tonight.

53:06

It's my pleasure.

53:07

And thank you to listening.

53:08

Thank you all for listening to Overcome Mental Health podcast.

53:12

If you found this episode interesting, please look us up on all major podcast platforms

53:12

and give us a review.

53:19

Thanks again for listening.

53:20

Until next time.